Inattentive Parents

[eleanorigby]

@spark240

That doesn’t sound very nice. Why would you do that?

It isn’t very nice. I wouldn’t do that. Why would you allow your kids to tease the host’s dog? That’s not very nice, either, but afterall, they’re “just playing”. And they’re “just playing” when they push others into the pool or rough house on the diving board or hold someone else’s head under water… They’re just being kids! Let 'em be! :rolleyes:

I’m not letting my kids, or my friends’ kids, throw food. Why would you do that?

No one with manners does this. But sadly, there are plenty of people sans manners these days. I used it as one example. 18 month olds (and other preverbal kids) will throw food–they like to play with it (hell, there are some 18 year olds who will throw food). Your previous post sounded like you wanted the kids to have fun at the expense of the adults at the party. It has an air of “won’t someone think of the children? They’re only young once and should get to shriek and run about at will.” etc. Is that not your position? I’m saying that allowing kids unfettered license is asking for escalation of play which can quickly lead to chaos.

And NO child should be unattended or supervised near a pool, period. As a parent, I’d much rather keep an eye on my own kid than rely on some kid hired from down the street to do so. Is that kid even qualified in life saving and water rescue?

If little kids can’t run and shriek some at a swimming pool party… well, I don’t know why they would want to go at all. Why would someone have, or invite, children if they don’t want them to let them play?

Who said they were invited? Sometimes people just show up with their offspring in tow. Now, a BBQ most likely has had the kiddies invited. And a bit of shrieking and splashing etc is to be expected. It’s when it gets out of hand (which is what we have been talking about here, that and how some parents overreact to another adult daring to discipline their precious baby when said “baby” acts badly in public). And even at proper venues, it can get nuts quickly. Just because junior is at a birthday party doesn’t mean he gets to act like an animal.

[eleanorigby]

Speaking of weddings, I once went to one several years ago where a 2 year old little girl ran over the bride’s train (one of those Last Day of Pompeii type ones–9 yards long) repeatedly, back and forth across the train, as the ceremony was occurring. And where was her mother? Watching the ceremony. Even the pastor hesitated to see if any responsible adult would lay claim to this little princess. Nope.
:rolleyes:

[rhubarbarin]

@Shot_From_Guns

Sometimes I think I was the only kid who was raised with the idea that (a) shouting is okay outdoors but (b) screaming is reserved for actual emergencies (someone’s bleeding, someone’s being dragged to a van, someone’s overwhelmed by existential ennui).

You’re not the only one. We did not shriek at my house*, growing up - it was considered both rude and a false alarm. And to this day, I get physically upset when I hear screaming, and have to go and make sure the kid (or whoever, there are teenagers round here who feel free to scream like they are being murdered) is okay…

God, compared to all the parents I know now, I am going to be such a hardass with my own kids. But compared to my mom I’ll be easy-going. If my kids turn out a bit less spoiled and thoughtless than most of the ones I know around here, I’ll be happy.
*past babyhood

[Peremensoe]

@eleanorigby

Why would you allow your kids to tease the host’s dog? That’s not very nice, either, but afterall, they’re “just playing”. And they’re “just playing” when they push others into the pool or rough house on the diving board or hold someone else’s head under water… They’re just being kids! Let 'em be! :rolleyes:

None of those things are “just playing.” The kids might think they are, and that’s when they should be corrected. I never said I would tolerate any such behavior, from my own children or others.

@eleanorigby

But sadly, there are plenty of people sans manners these days.

I agree. I don’t speak for them, and hope you will not presume that I do.

@eleanorigby

Your previous post sounded like you wanted the kids to have fun at the expense of the adults at the party. It has an air of “won’t someone think of the children? They’re only young once and should get to shriek and run about at will.” etc. Is that not your position? I’m saying that allowing kids unfettered license is asking for escalation of play which can quickly lead to chaos.

I want everyone, adults and children, to have fun. It’s not much of a party otherwise.

We are only young once, and kids should be allowed to be kids.

That does not mean that they should be able to do whatever they want “at will,” or be given “unfettered license.” It is the proper role of adults to demonstrate, explain, and (when necessary) enforce acceptable behavior, while still allowing kids maximum room to be kids within that scope.

@eleanorigby

And NO child should be unattended or supervised near a pool, period. As a parent, I’d much rather keep an eye on my own kid than rely on some kid hired from down the street to do so. Is that kid even qualified in life saving and water rescue?

I agree. However, if every parent at a swimming pool party has to keep an eye on their own kids the whole time, how much fun can the parents be having? (See above.)

The best way to run a swimming pool party, for a group which includes both adults and children, is for responsible adults within the group (not “some kid”) to take turns overseeing and managing behavior in and around the pool.

@eleanorigby

Who said they were invited? Sometimes people just show up with their offspring in tow.

If that happens, either the hosts have made a serious organizational error (by failing to explain exactly who is invited), or those showing up are being rudely presumptuous and should have the terms of the invitation explained to them again.

@eleanorigby

It’s when it gets out of hand (which is what we have been talking about here, that and how some parents overreact to another adult daring to discipline their precious baby when said “baby” acts badly in public). And even at proper venues, it can get nuts quickly. Just because junior is at a birthday party doesn’t mean he gets to act like an animal.

I agree. My point is that it is both impractical and unfun for parents to always be the ones asserting this. If parents never allow others to take a measure of responsibility for their (the parents’) children–or if people see occasional responsibility for others’ children as an intolerable burden–then everybody concerned is worse off.

[TruCelt]

@pbbth

For example, I have asked that people not bring their children to my wedding ceremony. They are welcome at the reception . . .

FWIW I think this is a thoughtful and caring compromise. It is even kinder tothe children, who don’t actually enjoy being desperately shushed and forced to sit still for something they don’t udnerstand.

aaaand CUE all those who have dear memories of greatly enjoying a wedding ceremony when they were three. . .

[Shot_From_Guns]

@Miss_Violaceous

For a kid who is in the proccess of learning to express themselves through sound, I can’t see that flipping out over a shriek or two is productive or healthy.

“A shriek or two” is generally not going to be a problem, especially with a pre-verbal child. More than that, however, means that the child needs to be removed from the public area post-fucking-haste.

@spark240

If little kids can’t run and shriek some at a swimming pool party… well, I don’t know why they would want to go at all. Why would someone have, or invite, children if they don’t want them to let them play?

There is nothing about shrieking that’s necessary to have fun. When they’re outdoors, letting kids be loud and even shout is just dandy by me. Screaming and shrieking, however, is grating and should be reserved for genuine emergencies. *You *might find it adorable; *I *find it makes me want to rip their little tongues out and shove them down the parents’ throats.

Seriously. Your disgusting brats will have just as much fun not shrieking, I guarantee, and everyone else will appreciate being able to leave at the end of the evening still having eardrums.

[Sleeps_With_Butterflies]

@Not_a_Platypus

While I don’t have kids, I agree with this. If you specifically ask me to keep an eye on your kid for a couple of minutes, fine, but don’t assume. I can’t speak for anyone else, but I chose not to have kids because I generally don’t want to be responsible for them. If you chose to have a child, YOU need to bear the responsibility or make arrangements otherwise. I’m not a jerk that would blithely let someone get hurt (child or adult) but I don’t want to watch your offspring.

A few days after I moved into my house I got a knock at the door and there were three kids there. I’d say the oldest two were 9-12ish and the youngest was about 4. They said that they were there to swim. I was confused. The oldest explained that the lady who lives there let them use her pool but now there was a lock on the gate.

I explained that she moved and I was living there now and that I wasn’t letting anyone use the pool. I said it nicely, honest! About twenty minutes later the doorbell rang and there were the kids again, but with their mother this time.

I explained to her the same thing, that I’d purchased the house and the old owner was gone. She said something like “So are you telling me that my kids can’t swim here anymore?” and I said “Yes. I’m afraid they can’t.” She stood there with her mouth hanging open and then YELLED at me. “Thanks a LOT! What am I supposed to do with them all afternoon?”

About a week later she came back with a basket of muffins and apologized for her behavior and said she was just frustrated that day. I accepted her apology and we spoke for a few minutes just to be neighborly. Before she left she tried AGAIN to get me to let her kids come swim. I told her no and gave her many reasons why not (although I was mad at myself later for doing it, I owed her no explanations). I told her I work a lot and am gone a lot, that I’m a private person and not really one for a lot of visitors, etc etc. She told me that I didn’t have to be there, that her kids were good swimmers. Unbelievable.

The woman who had my house before me was probably 60ish and maybe she loved kids and didn’t mind them hanging around all the time, but that’s not me. Plus, I definitely didn’t want the liability on me if something happened to them.

/end rant on shitty, inattentive woman

[Chimera]

Bets she’d be very quick to sue the fuck out of you if anything happened to her precious angels, regardless of whether or not you were home at the time.

[Kimstu]

@Sleeps With Butterflies

A few days after I moved into my house I got a knock at the door and there were three kids there. I’d say the oldest two were 9-12ish and the youngest was about 4. They said that they were there to swim. I was confused. The oldest explained that the lady who lives there let them use her pool but now there was a lock on the gate.

I explained that she moved and I was living there now and that I wasn’t letting anyone use the pool. I said it nicely, honest! About twenty minutes later the doorbell rang and there were the kids again, but with their mother this time.

I explained to her the same thing, that I’d purchased the house and the old owner was gone. She said something like “So are you telling me that my kids can’t swim here anymore?”

:eek: What kind of selfish asshole is constantly sending her kids to swim in a neighbor’s pool when she isn’t even close enough to the neighbor to know that THE NEIGHBOR MOVED OUT??!!!?!?

Holy crap, I bet the former owner of your house sold it just to get away from that woman. Don’t be taken in by the muffins, Butterflies: this neighbor is a sugar-borrowing, advantage-taking, nest-feathering moocher from Moocherville.

[eleanorigby]

@spark240

None of those things are “just playing.” The kids might think they are, and that’s when they should be corrected. I never said I would tolerate any such behavior, from my own children or others.

I agree. I don’t speak for them, and hope you will not presume that I do.

I want everyone, adults and children, to have fun. It’s not much of a party otherwise.

We are only young once, and kids should be allowed to be kids.

That does not mean that they should be able to do whatever they want “at will,” or be given “unfettered license.” It is the proper role of adults to demonstrate, explain, and (when necessary) enforce acceptable behavior, while still allowing kids maximum room to be kids within that scope.

I agree. However, if every parent at a swimming pool party has to keep an eye on their own kids the whole time, how much fun can the parents be having? (See above.)

The best way to run a swimming pool party, for a group which includes both adults and children, is for responsible adults within the group (not “some kid”) to take turns overseeing and managing behavior in and around the pool.

If that happens, either the hosts have made a serious organizational error (by failing to explain exactly who is invited), or those showing up are being rudely presumptuous and should have the terms of the invitation explained to them again.

I agree. My point is that it is both impractical and unfun for parents to always be the ones asserting this. If parents never allow others to take a measure of responsibility for their (the parents’) children–or if people see occasional responsibility for others’ children as an intolerable burden–then everybody concerned is worse off.

But these ARE the people we are bitching about here. Why is this so hard to understand? Not all kids are nice or well behaved. Not all parents are responsible or well mannered. That is what we’re all complaining about.

The pool woman seems typical… what a tool.

[Cat_Whisperer]

@spark240

<snip>It is the proper role of adults to demonstrate, explain, and (when necessary) enforce acceptable behavior, while still allowing kids maximum room to be kids within that scope.<snip>

If you change that to “it is the proper role of adults to demonstrate…” to “it is the proper role of parents to demonstrate…,” I could buy that. I’m an adult, and I have no obligation to do anything whatsoever with other people’s kids.

[Darryl_Lict]

@Hilarity_N.Suze

I childproofed my house. But they got in anyway!

True story: My son, between age 3 and 4, stuck a fork into an electrical socket. He needed the fork in order to pry off the childproofing.

Today, that child is an electrical engineer.

So there.

Hee hee!

I remember sticking a bare copper wire into both socket inputs when I was probably in 1st grade. The copper wire actually had bubble depressions due to the melting of the copper. My parents never asked who blew out the fuse.

I’ve got a master’s degree in electrical engineering.

[CanvasShoes]

@eleanorigby

But these ARE the people we are bitching about here. Why is this so hard to understand? Not all kids are nice or well behaved. Not all parents are responsible or well mannered. That is what we’re all complaining about.

The pool woman seems typical… what a tool.

Oh, she is. We are living in the era of the entitled, the non-accountable and the irresponsible.

[ivan_astikov]

Fuck all this, how hard can it be to be a parent? All you have to do is feed the little shits and be there when they fall over, give them praise when they behave and make their life hell when they don’t. Once they are 18, kick them out of the nest, job done.

[CanvasShoes]

@ivan_astikov

Fuck all this, how hard can it be to be a parent? All you have to do is feed the little shits and be there when they fall over, give them praise when they behave and make their life hell when they don’t. Once they are 18, kick them out of the nest, job done.

Oh, if only. You don’t have kids yet, huh?

No, there’s a bit of work to it. But it IS the parent’s job to do their parenting. It is not the job of the lady next door with the nice pool, nor the couple at the next table (at the far too adult to really be appropriate for kids restaurant) who are gritting their teeth and trying to have a conversation over your 6 year old’s screeching tantrum.

[Nava]

@HelloKitty

That, and the whole making sure kid at least makes it to Kindergarten in 1 piece thing.

Except for the bits of nails and hair which you should have trimmed. Just remember declawing is cruel, don’t do it.

Another one for “girls aren’t the only ones whose shrieks can cause heart attacks”. Middlebro’s highest pitch, age 3-6, would send my poor canary belly-up to the floor of the cage, gasping for air in terror. His daughter seems to have inherited Daddy’s pitch, but so far she hasn’t developed it fully. And, while The Other Grandmother encourages misbehavior, the Kidlet is already adept at using with his little sister the kind of techniques Mom and I used on him, like putting a hand out for a hi-five when some Idjit Grownup needles the Kidlette to slap him…

It’s kind of sad when a 4yo is more grown-up than his almost-70yos, isn’t it? Both for his infancy and for their stupidity.

[Jolly_Roger]

@even_sven

And this is what it boils down to. The dislike here is not over some particular action. It’s once again a bunch of people who somehow feel like they are owed a life with zero interaction with children.

I had a coworker that lived a few doors down the street from me. He had two kids, a young preschool aged daughter and a toddler son. He loved to have BBQ parties during the summer. Fortunately his kids were well behaved. Sure, the son would run around like crazy and had to be watched constantly (he was a toddler, after all) but my friend and his wife were pretty good at caring for their children. Enter another guy we both worked with…he had two kids also, (twins). They were a nightmare. If my bud called and said come over we’re having a BBQ party I’d ask “Is such and such bringing those two kids of his?” If the answer was yes I usually told him “Maybe I’ll stop by for a moment…but maybe not”. Why?

Because I don’t have kids. I don’t currently work with kids. So yes, I am owed my time of not having to interact with YOUR kids if you’re going to let them run around w/o supervision. No one here thinks they won’t ever have to deal with kids at a social gathering, but if your kid is being a problem I don’t want to deal with it. I’ve got my own crosses to bear.

When I worked for NATO we had a NCO (though it was open to officers and civilian staff/family too) bar that I used to co-manage/bartend in. Friday after work was happy hour and we’d have free food and stuff. Parents immediately brought all of their kids (kids got free soft drinks). Happy hour ended at seven and now the kids generally wrecked the place. I caught some of them purposely smashing cheetos into the rug once, and another time setting fire to things with candles that were on the tables. All this while mommy and daddy sat on the patio drinking and not caring what there little wuggums was up to. So I changed the rules…after 7 kids gotta go. Before 7 unsupervised children will be booted out with their parents. Yeah, some parents were upset…but the majority of folks were so happy they would stop by my normal office to tell me.

Before you go into the whole kid hating thing, I’ve watched peoples children for them, I’ve organized parties for kids and all that. But there are times when its not appropriate to bring your screaming unruly kids to a function and when you do, YOU need to control them. The notion that people that don’t want ever interact with children because they prefer not to have to babysit the kid you ain’t watchin’ gets under my skin.

[Jolly_Roger]

@even_sven

Well, you know what, I was walking down the street yesterday, and I was stuck behind this old couple. Being old, they walked very slow. I said “excuse me” to get around them, but they must have been hard at hearing because they did not respond. I swear it took me fifteen extra minutes just to go a block.

Now, would it be reasonable to think “keep track of your old people and don’t let them block the sidewalks and if you can’t get a caretaker”? Of course not. What I thought was “I live in a society full of people, some of different ages with different needs. Being a member of society who has decided to go out in public, I practice tolerance and respect.”

That has nothing to do with the topic.

[Jolly_Roger]

@Chimera

Bets she’d be very quick to sue the fuck out of you if anything happened to her precious angels, regardless of whether or not you were home at the time.

Hahaha! The house my wife and I are buying is down the street from another house on sale with a pool! I told my wife “No way. We’ll be up tour eyeballs in neighborhood kids if we buy that house”.

[Peremensoe]

@Cat_Whisperer

If you change that to “it is the proper role of adults to demonstrate…” to “it is the proper role of parents to demonstrate…,” I could buy that. I’m an adult, and I have no obligation to do anything whatsoever with other people’s kids.

I disagree, unless you want to withdraw from society and make your own way in the wilderness. This is part of what living with other human beings entails; you have many small responsibilities to the people around you.

Besides, playing a minor support role in the decent growth of other people’s children into adults is in your direct personal interest, as well. We all benefit from kids growing up right, whether they’re ours or not.