Nurse!
The UN Charter is a ratified treaty of the United States. Does the US have an obligation to honor its treaties or doesn’t it? Does it “tyranize” us to expect us to keep our own word?
Governments have no ethical authority to negotiate treaties on behalf of people who have given no consent to the treaties. Suppose it ratified a treaty stating that all green beans shall be cooked al dente — how the hell would you like that? Oh wait, Minnessota. Okay, suppose all green beans shall be cooked until they’re falling apart, and with a big block of fatback?
Ha! Like a measly black helicopter has any chance of survival during mosquito season (Late Jan. - Early Oct.)
Oops. You’re right. I typed that out quickly and left out a negative, or somethin’. Doesn’t really change my point tho’. Johnson ordered military intervention in the Dominican Republic. In doing so, he attempted to subvert the democratic process.
Agreed.
Don’t think that counted as Johnson starting the war. But I agree with your premise in general.
DtC, those “imbeciles” in Waco were very confused and mislead human beings. How fortunate that you, those you love, and their children are not vulnerable to such horrors as being burned alive. Whether it was Janet Reno, someone higher up, or the Branch Davidians themselves that were responsible for the fire does not change the horror and waste of human incineration.
Thanks for the info, Lib. I’m still trying to be open-minded to DtC’s comments about the origin of the fire, but that is difficult under the circumstances.
The circumstances are that the BD’s started the fires themselves and killed their own children along with themselves. I don’t feel sympathy for people who murder their own children. I don’t care how “confused” they were.
That’s what happened. That’s what the forensic evidence shows. That’s what the video evidence shows and that’s what the surviving witness testimony shows. Everything else is just lunatic fringe, anti-government, conspiracy theory bullshit. They started the fires themselves and then they started shooting the children along with anyone who tried to escape. One child was stabbed to death. Did a federal agent do that? Did Janet Reno do it? Should I feel sorry for the person who did?
The feds were arrogant in how they proceeded with the siege. They ignored the advice of cult experts who warned them that any aggressive action would play into the hands of Koresh who had convinced them that the apocalypse had come and that the more aggressive or threatening the feds were perceived to be from the inside, the more likely they were to go Jonestown and go through with the mass suicide which had been planned for months. The experts advised the feds that the way to undermine Koresh’s authority within the compound was to back off. To remove most of the feds from the area and de-escalate the situation. It would have been the opposite of what Koresh was telling them would happen. Instead of listening, the feds, in their arrogance, pushed to smoke them out with tear gas. Janet Reno was sworn in as AG in the middle of the siege, took the advice of veteran federal law enforcement agents, and approved the tear gas.
A few hours after the tear gas attack several fires started from within the compound.
Reno, as AG, took the responsibility for the tear gas decision and has become the poster child for anti-government nuballs ever since.
In my opinion, it is inaccurate, unfair and immoral to demonize law enforcement personel who were doing their jobs as some kind of cartoon, “jackbooted” stormtroopers who deliberately murdered 80 people - more than 20 of them children- because…because what? Because they hate religious freedom? Because they hate guns? I don’t know what the motive is supposed to be.
Blaming Janet Reno is doubly stupid since she had nothing to do with the planning of the raid or any of the initial events. All she did was make the mistake of listening to veterans on the ground when she arrived at a new job.
I recall that all the polls I saw during the last presidential election showed a tight race down to the wire…
**And Georgie won BY A WHOPPING 2%!!! How could them polls BE SO WRONG?!?
**
“Sumtimes I wish I could do sum figurin but they cut my fundin for skool to bolsters their wranks.”
Man you people are stupid.
Diebold.
Diebold exactly…
But I prefer to use sarcasm in this instance, even if he actually won by 2% that is well within the margin and is not a “mandate” by any stretch of the imagination or calculation by Homeskoolin.
Let them go on thinking they can do no wrong. Have you noticed the groundswell brewing? I have and it gives me chills down my spine.
That which rises must descend and they will descend back into the obscurity they came from.
Now swap Janet Reno for George Bush. Then, read and reflect.
That would be a good point, if we hadn’t created the OSP.
Good point. Bush assumes office, gets the briefing about Al Qaeda from Richard Clarke, and naturally does all the stuff that Clarke recommended.
Oh, wait…
However, just as Bush chose to listen to the wrong advisors and wound up doing something stupid and destructive, so did Reno. She had people telling her that antagonize the Branch Davidians would end in tears before bedtime, just as Bush had advisors telling him what the actual situation was in Iraq. She chose to act differently; so did Bush. The logical parallel remains.
In the end however, any analogy breaks down if you look too closely at it. I’m just trying to get Diogenes to look at the broad paralells between Reno’s actions (which he is excusing) and Bush’s (which he refuses to). The reasoning he’s applying to exculpate Reno can be equally applied to Bush. By logic only, however; certainly not by scope. Bush’s failure to listen to the proper people and take the prudent course of action (or rather inaction) has been far, far more destructive than Reno’s. And far, far more despicable. Using his rationale, I find that we can’t excuse either of them.
Hell, I believe, probably just as strongly as you do, Desmostylus, that Bush has embarked the US upon a dangerous and poorly designed course, the terrible, terrible fallout of which we’ll be experiencing for many years to come. I dunno why you’re pickin’ on me. I’m no Bush apologist, but neither am I blinded by the partisan hatred that seems to prevent some folks around here from seeing logical parallels between this administration and others that have gone previously.