Do I have the right to require my future spouse to join and believe in my own religion? Will such a marriage work, especially if the spouse in question doesn’t want to change religions? Or is such a marriage doomed from the start?
You’re not describing an interfaith marriage ( which can work). You’re describing a marriage in which one party is making marriage conditional on the other to changing something about themselves , which is much less likely to work.
No. You can’t require somebody to believe in anything.
It won’t work if it starts from the basis of one partner wanting to change something so fundamental about the other. They might be persuaded to go along with it grudgingly, but I don’t think that it’s a good basis for a marriage for one party to have to pretend to beliefs they don’t really hold.
It will work if each party understands and respects the religious beliefs (or lack of them) of the other.
As doreen said, if you require them to make a change they don’t want to make, no, your marriage won’t work. If you accept them as they are, it has a much better chance of working.
For example, in the local Reform synagogue here in town, about half its younger members are intermarried – and I don’t know of any who have had problems.
If you’re in a religion that says anybody who doesn’t believe as you do will go to Hell, then that might make it more difficult for you to marry somebody who you believe is going to Hell. But if you force them to change and they don’t really want to, it may be your life that becomes Hell.
Any faith that doesn’t allow for tolerance and/or flexibility in any degree would probably preclude a mixed marriage.
Marriage is about acceptance. It’s not about one person or their beliefs dominating.
In defense of changing religions, my grandmama converted to Catholicism to marry grandpop, as the church looked askance on mixed marriages back then. 'Course, one can argue that, considering the two religions involved, especially bank then, all she had to do was learn new hymns.
OTOH, my former roommate (now a Conservative rabbi) and myself had raging debates about intermarriage. He cited statistics that half of the grandkids of intermarried folks had left the Jewish faith. I counterargued that, even if true, it probably had a lot to do with the Conservatives condemnation of intermarriage - it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. The debates were never resolved.
Sua
- Grandmama’s original faith was Episcopalian;
- It’s “back then”
Sowwy
Sua
Catholic Chilean married to Episcopalian Southener?
Works if you talk to each other and respect each others beliefs and principles.
I appologize for the minor hijack but I’ve a question for David B:
David, how many of those interfaith couples in your congregation spend Christmas mass and/or Easter services in a church? (I’m not trying to exclude Islamic or Bhudist religions so please substitute respective religion and holiday as necessary.)
What I am roughly getting at is that in many cases, though no real conversion takes place, a de-facto conversion is practiced. That is, though neither partner converts, only one of the two religions are predominantly practiced in the home while the other is (for the most part) ignored.
(emphasis mine)
No offense intended at all QS but, ROTFLMAO. Read some of Mr. B’s posts in various “existence of g-d” threads in GD. You’ll get the joke.
Sua
Atheist here. Married to a woman of faith.
Works fine for me, though we have had to discuss how our children would be raised in some detail. I think it is more of a problem for my wife, since she does not always understand how I can respect teh quality of a faith while denying the particulars.
Forcing? Demanding? Pretty unhealthy way to start a marriage.
Whenever I hear that one person has converted to the faith of the other it always strikes doubt to me. I suppose if you’re raised and/or become somewhat lax or are searching for something in your spiritual development finding a life partner and becoming a part of his or her faith is a possibility, I’d wager nine time out of ten it’s one acquiescing to the other, and in matters of faith this sounds pretty dubious to me.
Of course, my own father converted from Catholicism to Methodism when he met and married my mother, but he’d had a serious falling out with the RC’s in his youth and considered himself religion-less until then. (He was adopted in the 1920’s, kinda loosely, and when he was a teenager the local parish priest came round one day to tell his parents they were sinning because they hadn’t reproduced their own kids; he thanked the father kindly and told him if he ever stepped foot in their house again he’d punch him in the nose. He wasn’t very Catholic after that…)
I do not agree with the sentiment that “one religion is celebrated and the other virtually ignored.” I have a male couple friend, one Jewish and one Christian, and although they’ve had their fights over stuff, they manage to agree to disagree and work it out. Ed hangs a “winter evergreen wreath” on the door, they have a New Year’s Eve party every year, Steve keeps his menorah in his room, etc., so it is possible to make an interfaith marriage work, but the key word is “work.”
But to the OP, I’d have to say no - sounds like disaster on the wind.
Esprix
**
In America, you have a right to put any stipulations on your wife as long as it is not illegal. Of course, your spouse has every right to not follow these stipulations and make a few of her own.
You both have the rights to get married or not, and you both have the right to be happy or not, and you both have th right to divorce or not once married.
Seems you are mixing up rights with what is ethical and moral. We all know you have the right to do a good many things most people would consider to be harmful, immoral or fattening.
**
Pretending the last part of your question is not the case, allow me to say that a lot of people stay married. Women stay with men who beat them. Men stay with women who sleep around. Marriages where one spouse knows about how the other spouse molests their kid(s) celebrate 20th wedding anniversaries.
Really depends on what you men by “work,” now doesn’t it?
In a nutshell: There are weak people with self-esteem (and other) issues who will put up with everything you want to do - force them to convert to your religion against their will - and even other things which are far more insidious.
I, personally, wouldn’t want to marry anyone like this, because just being married does not a “working” relationship make.
Yer pal,
Satan
I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR:
Two months, four weeks, 12 hours, 50 minutes and 26 seconds.
3581 cigarettes not smoked, saving $447.67.
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I would, except I’m such an idle bastard these days. Let me in on the joke in 25 words or less and I’ll be greatful to you for the life of this thread - prehaps even longer. Thanks much.
Esprix wrote:
With all due respect Esprix, your friends sound like they’ve reached a stalemate or rather a truce - it does not sound to me like a lasting and encompassing solution. I believe that it’s a symptom of something not being completely right in their relationship. Of course I don’t know them and ultimately have no right to judge.
I don’t mean to derail this thread but I find strong religious beliefs in both partners are counter indicated in a mixed faith relationship. Except in the case where both parties are strongly OPPOSED to religious practice.
I don’t want to get into long boring details but my wife and I have an interfaith marriage. That is, she was born Catholic while I’m Jewish. We have a meziza on our door and during Xmas holidays we proudly display an Xmas wreath right next to it. We have an Xmas tree every year (Chanuka bush for the squimish) and paint and hide easter eggs on… you guessed it, Easter. Just for the record we have two kids - so no, we don’t hide easter eggs from each other 
.
We celebrate Chanukka, Passover and Yom Kippur. What we don’t do is draw the line between “your” holiday and “my” holiday. They are all family holidays. We don’t keep a minorah in one room while the xmas tree is in the other. We embrace both traditions but we leave god and religion out of it. It’s not always easy but we enjoy creating family memories and traditions that our kids will cherish and hopefully pass on to their kids. What we avoid at all costs is exercising the “this is mine” and “that’s your’s” type of practice. It’s all OUR’s… the tree, the eggs, the minorah, the humentashen, the gefilte fish and matzo ball soup… all of it.
On the contrary - their relationship is doing quite well because neither one is making demands nor forcing the other to believe in something they don’t; basically, it works for them. Personally, I look forward to a relationship like you have, where each faith is incorporated in conjunction with the other as a “family” affair - sounds neat. But for them, “seperate but equal” is what works, and it certainly doesn’t impinge one whit the validity of their relationship.
Esprix
From personal observation, it seems to me that an interfaith marriage can work without strife (owing to religious differences) under three circumstances:
[ul]
[li]the two faiths in questions are relatively similar (i.e., Anglican/Episcopal and Roman Catholic), so that doctrinal differences can be “overlooked”[/li][li]neither partner is particularly strong in their respective faiths, so the lack of religious congruity is unimportant[/li][li]the bond between the couple transcends differences in faith, so that each partner can respect and share in the traditions of the other’s beliefs[/li][/ul]
From the phrasing of the OP, it appears as though both partners are strong in somewhat disparate beliefs. Forcing one to change is going to cause a lot of grief. You can delay that by taking the stance that you’ll work things out as you go, but you WILL run into a major problem if you don’t work out your differences NOW.
Let me elaborate as I am the one in question he is talking about. I love what the wodnerful dpr said, MArriage is about acceptance.
I have recently became a MOrmon, baptized, confirmed.
There fore the OP is moot.
But something else has come up since some folks want to share personal things, I must present a big problem.
Last night, I was bought a ticket for me and my son to go back to ohio , get a job, set up an apartment for me and my fiancee. Great. Well. I lost the ticket, called the family.
Now as of this morning, my fiance(?) says his dad had a talk with him(and he is easily infulenced by the guy) and suddenyl he hands me a list(yes! a list!) of conditions before he would marry me.
Convert(but I am already converted)
Have kids(already told him last night I would)
get a job here, and wait one year(plans last night were different)
“If you do these things, I will marry you.If not, I’ll have to end the relationship.”
Acceptance? I accept this man from the start, with his mental illness, same sex attraction, everything.
Now his father is teling him I’m after his and their money!Child support even! My child is not his, and if he doesnt adopt him, theres no obligation.And his dad thinks I cashed in the ticket. I did not.
This is weird.
May I have your opinions please? Does anyone see something wrong with this picture(and it isnt religion)
thanks
love you all(even esprix)
QuickSilver, I believe the joke is that David B. is an atheist and does not have a congregation or any other church body. So when you refered to “his congregation” talking about the local synagogue, the poster got a laugh out of the idea that David, a vocal atheist, would have a congregation.
As to the OP, Interfaith can work, but as others have stated forcing one’s partner to “believe” something that they do not will not work long term. Heck, I had an aunt and uncle that were both Baptists but went to different churches. I have attended both churches and they are basically the same, but they each liked the church that they attended and so they went their separate ways on Sunday morning. I think as long as you respect each other’s beliefs you can do fine.
Now, Vanilla has posted about a new situation. She has converted already but is facing some new obstacles in this matter.
Vanilla, first, I am no expert on psychology nor any other area of the human mind. I shall however offer my thoughts on the matter.
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It may be that Bill’s parents are concerned because he has some problems that have kept him in the house for most of his life, so they may have figured he would never leave, now they are faced with the prospect that not only is he going to leave their house, but he is moving from Utah to Ohio (very far away). So, they may be concerned with your motives as well as just the mixed feelings of “losing” their son.
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For the most part, when you get married you also marry the family. That is unless the person you are marrying is cut-off from their family.
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As for the list you posted. As you have said, you have already converted, so number 1 is done, you said you have already said you would have kids, so I guess that is convered as well. It looks as if the only thing on the list you have not done or agreed to already is the get a job there and wait one year (I guess to get married). Is that such a big deal? What would take you back to Ohio, as I recall, you were interested in leaving several months ago stating that you did not want to spend another winter there. If you are having to get a job, why not get a job and an apartment in Utah. Spend time with Bill and his family so they can all get to know you. In a year get married then decide if you are going to move or stay.
Marriage is about compromise. Some things one gives more than the other, but as long as both are willing to give then you can work things out.
An example, I was raised that you just do not drink alcohol at all. I have never had even one single drink of alcohol (I’m 30). My wife was raised that it was okay to have a drink every once in a while. She likes the occasional taste of certain alcoholic drinks. Before we got married, we discussed this issue. I said I would prefer that we never even allow alcohol into our house. She said that I was more important than having a glass of wine or whatever, so she chose to accept my preference. It has not since been an issue. On other things I have given in partly or completely.
If you feel that you are willing to give in on certain areas then by all means do so and marry him, but keep in mind, you will never change him. He may change, but likely he will always be who he currently is. If you are willing to take him as is and love him forever, then marry him, if not then take a long look at it and then make your decision.
At any rate, I would take the year and get to know each other, Utah should do fine.
Just my thoughts,
Jeffery
I may be loved, vanilla, but I’m keeping my fat trap shut - thanks anyway.
Esprix