esprix isn’t offering his opinion?
Its not so!!
It must be about to snow here!
well, thanks for posting saying you weren’t going to post…
A word on vanilla’s question: I don’t know your situation well, so it’s hard to tell just what’s going on, but it sounds a bit strange to me. A list of demands (that you’ve mostly already talked about), or the whole thing’s off? The ‘requirements’ part just doesn’t seem very respectful, even though they aren’t extreme or anything–getting a job isn’t a bad thing, you’ve already got most of the others covered. But it does sound kind of domineering.
Is the year-long waiting period because he wants to be sealed in the temple? I would discuss this one with the bishop–both of you together and separately. He can probably help you out with the decision (I’ve had friends in similar situations who have done it both ways). If you get civilly married, say, 2 months from now, you will have to wait a year from that date to be sealed, and maybe he wants to be sealed ASAP–but that can be tricky too. My advice would definitely be to get some time with the bishop to work these things out–that’s what he’s there for. 
Yes, you’re going to be marrying your in-laws too, but that’s no reason to let them take over. Your fiance may have some working out to do on that end too.
I think that inter-faith marriages can work with a lot of mutual respect and patience, but I wouldn’t want to do it–for many people, including me, faith is a dimension of life that needs to be shared as closely as possible with the spouse. And I worry about the effects after many years–would some people just get tired and drop the whole thing after a while? What about the kids–it seems to me that many of my friends raised in interfaith marriages-- where the parents didn’t want to force belief on them and wanted to let them choose at age 18 or whatever–have just wound up with very little faith at all. The policy sounds nice and democratic and 90’s, but often seems to end in apathy for the child. (As it says somewhere in the Old Testament, “train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it.” This sounds like good advice to me, even though it doesn’t always work.)
The reason why I want to be back in Ohio is that my parents are 81 and 85, and my mom is in a wheelchair.
If anything should happen to them, it would be impossible to get back there quickly enough or affordably enough to help.
I am their only child and STerling is their only grandchild.
Snark just said a few days ago he was willing to come back there and live.
I was trying to be politic. Would you like me to offer my opinion? Do you really want to open this up again?
Esprix
Oh. Well, if your parents need you, then that’s pretty important. Surely where you live and work while you’re only engaged isn’t THAT crucial to the marriage. What are airplanes and phones for, anyhow?
It seems Esprix is being a gentleman in refraining from saying, “I told you so,” in reference to the “Ex-gays and 20/20” thread in which he, Snark, and Vanilla went round and round.
Actually, no, I’m not. (And it was the “I can keep silent no longer” thread in The Pit where we hashed things out.) Snark, vanilla and I simply called a truce, or, rather, I said my peace, they rebutted, we went round and round for a while, and I agreed to lay off. But the issues discussed then really are only tangentially relevant to the OP and the situation vanilla posited. My fear is that if I address their current situation it will once again stir up a whole new batch o’ trouble that died a while ago.
Besides, if I wanted to say, “I told you so,” I’d open up another Pit thread and say it outright. When have you ever known me to be subtle? 
Esprix
Ummmm… is it just me or does anybody else think this thread has taken a very strange turn.
Vanilla, Snark - I absolutely and in no way mean for this to be a flame… but are we seeing an entirely new trend in settling domestic disputes? Is the winner of these types of disagreements going to be selected based on the number of sympathy votes he/she manages to acquire on some message board? Do you guys not see the folly in this?
I wish you both luck in your future lives together but I strongly advise you both to take this off-line, LITERALLY, and come to your own resolutions. I don’t think this is a very healthy way to find the answers you seek.
Hmmm, I may be the only one uncomfortable with this twist but I’m out of here…
Peace.
Quick: Yes, but he had posted this this morning and it was irreleveant as I AM LDS.
No, we are not taking votes, but this is amazing to me!
Its hard to believe; in fact, I am typing from a Pentecostal ladys apartment. I met her when I went to an Assemblies church when I first visited here, and she was kind enough to let us stay here as Bill’s dad wants us out of his house and never let back in.
Yes, Esprix, I want your comment and thoughts, such as they are;), on This subject. Homosexuality has no basis here, its a moot point in the whole thing as far as Bill and I are concerend. Address my post if you will. I will listen to your opinion, I didnt say I’d follow it, I have no options right now, but just sit down and tell me your opinion on this thing that just happened last night. Thank you and dont flame me…
Well obviously Vanilla, the fact of your parents age and you being the only child and all makes this a horse of a totally different color.
I agree that going back to Ohio is probably what is best for you.
Now, Bill, may have agreed to move and may have decided based on discussions with his father/parents not to. If you cannot persuade him to move, then I guess you have decided not to get married.
When I talked of compromise it was in the idea that each side can compromise and if there is a reason that one side cannot then if the other is willing to give completely then fine. If both of you had aging parents that needed you or you wanted to be near, you would have to deal with that or decide how to handle that.
If he will not move and you want to be near your parents, then I guess you are at an impasse. This is what happens in marriage all the time. Better to figure out how to deal with it now than after you guys are married.
As to the OP, I do think it best that both parents have the same beliefs, it makes life much easier, IMHO. But I do think it is possible to have an Interfaith marriage (not that it applies to Vanilla and Bill).
I wish both of you the best in whatever you decide. I like the both of you and hope that you both find great happiness.
Jeffery
So far the only post from Snark has been the OP, which sounded really weird. It could be interpreted in at least two ways:[ul][li]My fiancee is being a total bitch - am I out of line for asking her to convert?I feel really guilty for requiring this of my fiancee. She says it’s OK, but her body language is telling me otherwise - if she really doesn’t want to convert, will our marriage be doomed?[/ul]Of course, there are about a thousand other variations.[/li]
Then we get the stuff from vanilla about his dad giving him a list of demands? WTF?
Vanilla, did you lose the ticket and piss them off? That is, did Dad buy you the ticket and now that you’ve lost it (one in a series of events hinting to him you are irresponsible, perhaps?) he’s annoyed at you, and Snark along with him? Or, did Dad buy you the ticket hoping you’d buzz off and now is using this unusual circumstance of you losing the ticket (she’s usually so responsible) to get rid of you?
There are about a jillion things going on here and I have no clue what the truth is. Hearing from Snark would be good.
Let me just say that if you have been trying to do all you could to make this work, and Snark’s dad disapproves, it is up to Snark to stand up to his dad and live his own life. If he is going to bend to Dad’s will now, he will bend again in the future and your life will never be your own.
Vanilla, Run away. Don’t look back - you are better off on your own than inheriting a ton of baggage, not the least of which is Dad. Do you really want to put your child through life under the thumb of your father-in-law? If my above clouded assumptions are correct.
I truly hope Snark comes back to clear up my confusion - I’m sure I’m mistaken in a great many ways.
Therefore, I am hesitant to comment except in very general terms.
- Controlling behavior rarely changes from the side of the controller.
- Relationships between parents and children can change over time, but it is almost always a very gradual process.
- If you marry into a family that is not estranged, then you need to deal with the family as well as the spouse.
- Compromise is absolutely necessary in a marriage.
- Lists of demands and ultimatums are not generally associated with compromise.
- None of the above are more important than the emotions, attitudes and actions of you and your fiancee.
- Notice that #6 does not specify emotions alone: love is magnificent, but it cannot thrive in a vacuum.
I hadn’t realized that Snark is the fiance. (I did say that I wasn’t familiar with the circ’s!)
This is way too complicated for me. So I’m getting out, but I’ll just say that my answer to the OP is no, you can’t require anybody to change religions. You can’t “require” much of anything, or it’s not going to be much of a marriage. But vanilla says she has already converted, and I’m presuming that she means it. So I’m not sure how that is the problem here.
I do see some big problems in this list of demands that Snark, or Snark’s dad, has submitted. There isn’t any justification for that kind of domineering behavior–“do these things, or the whole thing’s off” is not an acceptable way to act towards a grown adult, particularly one you want to marry. And I agree with what douglips and S.M. said.
And I’m out of here. Good luck.
This is a lovely can of worms, indeed.
Bill and Rose, I think both of you know that I’ve rejoiced with you, care very much what happens to you, and have tried to offer my best advice on how to deal with your circumstances. And a public message board is not the place to sort this stuff out. If either or both of you want to talk with me, you have my e-mail address, and I’ll post my phone number over on the “other” board (For obvious reasons, I’d as soon not do it here).
Some notes for LDS people: IIRC Bill’s father either is or was the Bishop of that Ward. So going to the bishop is not necessarily the right course.
I hesitate to deal with the psychology involved. Certainly Bill’s psychological problems, which he’s been upfront about online, will need to be addressed in whatever solution you two come up with. I would suggest a very serious talk with Bill’s parents, with a neutral party present to help avoid harsh words, to sort out what their concerns are. And Rose, I’d be upfront in offering a prenuptial agreement if the money question raised in passing is in fact a serious concern.
Beyond that, all I can say is that you both will be in my thoughts and prayers, and I’d welcome the chance to help you work your way through this if you want me to.
snark will be on shortly to address the issue that I brought up, not necessarily the OP.
Thanks to all, and we will take it offline (though many posters have shared problems on here,there was no one here in Utah to talk about it with).
Til later, waiting for a new poster named chocolate to appear! or maybe strawberry
Okay, first of all, I wasn’t expecting the infamous list to be posted for all the world to see. Let me just say that I was being bullheaded and controlling. Vanilla and I are working things out and will be marrying very soon if all goes according to our new plan.
Yes, I agree that Vanilla should be near her folks.
The reason I began this thread was because I was doubting my right to impose my will on my fiancee, yet at the same time trying to affirm my religion’s insistence that I marry an LDS person. Vanilla got baptized and confirmed LDS last week, so I guess my main concern was that she was not believing LDS doctrine. But again, I may have erred, not allowing her time to change and learn a whole new belief system. In fact, I know I erred, and I have asked Vanilla’s forgiveness.
So, mea culpa, I made a big mistake with that list of demands, and God reprimanded me strongly for it (please don’t ask how, because you wouldn’t believe it if I told you).
We’re going to Cleveland, we’re a couple again, and we’re getting married. Woo-hoo!
Now its time for Esprix to have a celebratory party for us!!
I just know he will.
virtual flowers and dr. pepper can be sent to orangecakes@yahoo.com
I think Spiritus Mundi’s points are good ones.
A quick statement. vanilla and snark, if you two believe that airing this problem(s) on this BB and soliciting opinions will aid in resolving them, then by all means do so. The resolution is the point, and the means to the resolution should be what works for you. Even though this is a public BB, you are not airing your dirty laundry in public, as people choose to come here. For all you people thinking this is inappropriate, look at it this way: at least they ain’t on “Jerry Springer”
However, due to the personal turn this thread has taken, I do suggest that you ask the mods to move this to MPSIMS. Not that your problems are mundane, but GD lends itself to sweeping statements and positions, which may not help you two work this out.
Good luck.
Polycarp, thank you for your support. You’re always quick to offer help, and we appreciate it. Also, I’d like to thank the Academy and James Cameron for helping me realize my dream of becoming a star…oops, wrong forum. Forgive me, Cecil, for I have erred.
Arghh, fricking lag. Seems my post became redundant by the time I finished writing it. Congrats kids, be cool, and have much happiness.
Sua