Night 0 where? Are you accusing him of submitting a travel request before he got his role PM? According to the rules, a request to travel can only be made as a Night action in a player’s current city, i.e. Suburban, who was in London, would not have been able to submit a travel request until after the Day had ended:
He also claims to have the same phrase in his PM as Idle:
Are you suggesting that:
You seem to be interested in this topic, possibly even concerned. Are you now speculating that, if this role actually exists,
You now seem quite confident that there actually is one coercer in each city, why?
On travelling: when I signed up for the game I thought the travel option was a player-friendly element of the game, designed to increase participation during Day while permitting substantial downtime at Night compared to other games. I have 3 trips planned over the coming weeks and hoped to get a travelling role simply so I could coordinate Days with my quiet periods and Nights with my travel periods in order to avoid forced non-participation. I appreciate that travel may be used for strategic purposes but I expected to see a certain amount of oog reasoning too.
What you mean by “functionally save from lynch”? I can understand that a vote which forces a tie doesn’t actually get the votee lynched but just moves them to within 1 vote of the lynch, but how does that save them?
ok someone one of these days really needs to give me a step by step way of quoting multiple quotes inside of one big post separately. for now the quotes in italics are by guiri the responses are mine.
*Are you suggesting that:
i don’t know whether there is a deporter or not. apparantly we have some tourists who did not come of anything they did. did someone compel them to travel, did the mod do it just as part of the game setup, or are they lying their ass off. shoot, i don’t know. i just thought it might be wise to talk about the implications.
*You seem to be interested in this topic, possibly even concerned. Are you now speculating that, if this role actually exists,
i am always interested in all things regarding game setup. i would think if the role did in fact exist that i would be surprised that two of them started out in the same city (but, shit what would i know especially considering the mod). ok i assumed it was a Night action that would happen to someone else on the other side of the world but you are right i guess you should be able to use it on anyone. and yes because i find it highly doubtful that, at least at this point of the game there would be multiple identical roles in the same place if two folks claim to have been forced to travel. at this point in the game, i would be highly skeptical of that information. and the reason i say at this point in the game is because our travelers could very well have been picked at random by our mod, but i doubt that he will interject directly in this game after the initial set up.
You now seem quite confident that there actually is one coercer in each city, why?
i really don’t get where you are coming to this conclusion. nowhere did i say that i thought there might be one in each city, merely that i found it dubious that there would be two in the same if the role even fracking exists, fcs.
the cliff notes version of what i was trying to get across.
i don’t think claiming travel abilities is going to help out town as much as scum.
if someone travels it would it be in town’s best interest to know if they did it on their own or were forced to? and does that information potentially benefit town more than scum?
My participation here has been a bit spotty over the past few days and is likely to continue in the same manner for a few days more as I’m dealing with a family member in the hospital. I’ve been finding enough time to stay caught up reading the thread, but having an opportunity to post has been a bit more challenging.
Now, to address peeker’s concerns…I thought I had made everything clear earlier in the thread, but apparently that’s not the case, so I’ll try to sum everything up here.
I did not choose to travel last Night. When I received my PM, it told me “You begin the game in transit to Wellington, New Zealand.”, just as Idle’s did.
If at any point in the future I find myself traveling against my will, I will make that fact abundantly clear at my first opportunity. I expect that anyone else would do the same; we are judged in this game by our actions, so if our actions are out of our control that fact must be made public.
If I choose to travel of my own accord, then you will know by the fact that I do not say otherwise; however, to avoid any potential confusion, I will make it known in that case that I am traveling of my own free will. I do not consider it necessary for anyone else to ‘claim’ planned travel, but I will assume that all travel is planned unless the traveler explicitly states otherwise.
If I travel, I may or may not give my reason for traveling. That will depend on the circumstances and the state of the game at that time.
The implication of the rules snippet you quoted is definitely that your vote is applied at Dusk (hence, dead last in terms of time stamp). So immediately prior to dusk it would have been Baffle 6, SF 5. Your vote made it a tie, but as the most recent person to receive that sixth vote, SF survived.
I still have no idea how you are getting that voting SF (at any time) could save him, but it’s probably a waste of time to pursue the issue; your claim looks legit enough.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, unless people randomly submitted actions before they received their role PMs, we can be pretty confident that Idle and Suburban were put in transit by the moderator. Why? Possibly to encourage additional discussion on Day 1 in London, possibly to initiate the travel process, certainly to even out the distribution of players between cities, etc.
I understand you and I too like to speculate but it appeared to me that you were worrying about an event that was dependent on too many conditions (IF there are deporters, IF they can act on non-travellers, IF two players travel the same Night, IF one previously claimed non-travellers, IF there aren’t two deporters in the same city, IF both travellers are Town, IF both claim to have been forced to travel, what should we do?)
Yeah, I was reading between the lines- you just seemed to become more confident in the existence of the role as you posted.
If this scenario was the only one in which Town risked a mislynch due to travel, I would consider this a minimal risk.
ok, it sure seems to read to me that burby claims that he was forced to travel, right?
but he sure seems to indicate that he has the capability to travel, right?
i mean, maybe he is being truthful. maybe the mod was just kind of getting the game going. maybe he is scum and is lying his ass off and the scum team decided to send him to NZ for some nefarious purpose or repositioning of assets. that’s if the scum could even talk which i don’t know. but typically as scum you get a pm that at least lets you know who your buddies are. so maybe he just decided to get out of town on his own.
mod question: were there any “Night 0” actions allowed? and if that is not the correct term actions allowed before everyone’s status was officially posted?
The game began in post #80 with Day in London and Night in Wellington.
Like I said in the post you quote, I seem to have a reading comprehension problem with this particular part of the rules. I made the same error before the roles went out. I think it is just a knee-jerk expectation that “Ties are bad. Don’t do them.” is a warning not to be the player to create a tie, and as a disincentive from doing so consequence would be something that would blow up in the face of person placing the vote.
Anyway, I think it has gotten through my think skull this time. I’ve had a long couple of weeks.
Clarification received:
If things ever are close at the buzzer again, I’d be doing a disservice to my faction not to set an alarm and check where the votes are before making a final decision on my vote. Fun times, but I’ll do it.
I don’t see any reason to doubt that Suburban and Ed were both drugged by the Mod and unwillingly stuffed into seats in coach, which says nothing about what their alignments might be.
Are you kidding? Guinea Pigs fly with the luggage.
You mean **Suburban **and Idle, but yes, you are correct. At least I know you are correct in my case, and I have no reason to suspect that things were any different for Idle.
I agree that (especially in the end game) knowing who is going to be where in the coming Days is good to know. My reason to ask for ‘travel plans’ was however to be able to compare the reasons for travelling now with future explanations for (not) travelling.
With four people having claimed with no hard correlation between travel ability and powers I don’t think mass claiming has much risk but has the benefit of pinning down travel abilities I’m still in favor of it for that reason.
On the other hand thinking how it could benefit scum: if they know who can travel might give them more options to regulate the travel (by either killing them or not, or perhaps other powers).
As pointed out by others I don’t see a how Plankton/Idle are lying about just starting the game in travel.
then we can infer that any actions before post #80 were mod directed or game set up related, right? and will there be any more of these?
If I would have to give a reason why it was ‘weak’ it would be because it a public one so it’s easy to fake. As others have pointed out all VT claims by town VTs are honest so the ‘some’ qualifier is a bit odd. I don’t think Lost Mafia was particular power role heavy so make a vanilla claim more suspect.
I do think the bias was (and is) still there towards travelers simply because they’re doing something not everyone is doing and therefore draw attention. Most posts listed by Shadowfacts do acknowledge that bias but he is right that that bias definitely doesn’t turn in to ‘gun-blazing’ as Drain Bead puts it later.
Shadowfacts doesn’t list the claims by Idle and Pleonast (previously he would claim Town power or vanilla but he full claimed here) but those where also driven by the fact that travel draws attention, and since this is mafia, suspicion. .
peeker, what are you getting at? What actions are you referring to? Everything prior to post #80 was sign-ups, general chit-chat, and a fair amount of clarification and discussion of the rules. I don’t see anybody *doing *anything.
I received my PM at 10:04 AM (PST). The timestamp on Post 80 was 10:18. Are suggesting that there was a flurry of secret activity within that 15-20 minute window? Move along…there’s nothing to see here.
Reading a thread backwards isn’t for me ><. I do agree that we should lynch local so that’s why I’m picking on mostly the Wellington poster for now.
I’m taking Cookies claim at face value for now. If she is town she is basically in both towns and if she scum there is double the vote record for her.
So the other think that stand out is an utterly confused peeker and some odd comments by Scuba_Ben. So I’ll pick a bit more at that:
Why do you suspect that if there had been traveller(s) to London now Idle or Plankton should be scum? Just for the nice balance of things?
With 25 players there probably around 5 scum so then ‘for balance’ one in five traveler would be scum? But no travellers Today throws that off?
You may infer whatever you like. Whether you should or not remains to be seen.
I do not believe the moderator possesses the ability to travel backwards through time. As far as you know.
Yes, yes. Idle and not Ed.
I hadn’t slept yet, but all is well now. :o
<snipped>
the soup apparantly needs taters in order to thicken.