Is a synagogue the church for me?

Great Debates
1

I grew up in a liberal, middle-class Reform Presbyterian Church (USA) congregation in Portland, OR. I moved to London in 2006, and since then I’ve been looking for a church/congregation with the same laid-back, friendly, chatty, socially liberal, scholarly, grounded but not regressive feel.

Anglicanism isn’t doing it for me (I’ve investigated high-high and low-low churches and a few in between), and the few Presbyterian churches I’ve found here have been of the ranting socially-conservative John Knox variety.

So I thought a synagogue might have what I’m looking for in a congregation. The holy texts are familiar enough that I think I won’t feel completely lost. In fact, in my opinion, the Torah is more feminist than the New Testament, and (warning: broad brush) I can’t remember meeting a self-righteous socially conservative Jew. I dated a Jewish guy in high school, and all his family celebrations felt very familiar in the way the community interacted. I googled around and found the New London Synagogue, which is in my neck of the woods, and I am planning to visit tomorrow morning. I like this bit from their website:

and I’ve been reading their rabbi’s blog and like it (as well as the fact that their rabbi has a blog in the first place!). Also, on the website, they have pictures of last year’s Purim party in which one small child is dressed up like Batman. Which is clearly the sign of a congregation who knows how to worship (Purim is obviously the best holy day of the entire Abrahamic calendar, and I will confess to being anxious to get my foot in the door with some worship group before it comes around this year.)

Is this cultural appropriation? I mean, I have, at the moment, no intention of converting to Judaism. I just want to find a congregation where I can worship in the way that feels ‘right’ to me, and the attitude and culture are more important than the scriptural specifics.

Also, I’m nervous about attending a service for a religion I don’t have much experience with, and doing the wrong thing/not knowing when to do the right thing/all that scary ritual business.

2

(Yes, I’m aware that I might not get very many knowledgeable answers on the Sabbath! :p)

3

IMHO if your heart is in seeking God then follow it.

4

Well, yes, I think I’ve got to that part, I’m just haggling with The Big Guy on the specifics.

5

If you felt like you knew Jesus personally, as you would know a brother I’d advise otherwise but God instructs us to ‘Come let us reason together’ (Is 1:18), and the only thing we have to reason with Him is His Word, so here is His instructions:

If you are doing that then you are doing exactly what He tells you to do, the path for you may go through Judaism, is did for Saul/Paul.

6

(Where I’m coming from in my answer: don’t belong to a church, or in my case meeting, since I was raised Quaker – culturally Christian, but barely. Don’t accept the divinity of Christ. Do believe in some kind of higher power, but what that means is theologically pretty idiosyncratic.

Plus I have a PhD in sociology of religion, which is about how religions operate as groups.)

I think it would be seriously inappropriate. There’s a fundamental difference between Christianity and Judaism, and that difference is where they stand on the divinity of Jesus of Nazareth. If you continue to consider yourself a Christian, you shouldn’t be worshipping with Jews as your primary congregation.

7

Don’t they have Methodist churches over there? You might want to check on that. It might be closer to your worldview.

I worshiped at a United Methodist church for years, before my own religious journey brought me back to Catholicism.

8

!!! Do you mind if I pester you a little more? This is exactly what I’m trying to figure out for myself.

To me, the important part of religious observance is the community. I could not care less about who is divine, or divinely inspired, or whatever, as long as the fundamental message is “be nice to each other, and help people who are poor or oppressed or otherwise unable to help themselves”.

I consider myself a Christian because my family has been Presbyterian for 300 years, I met many of my closest schoolfriends and my first boyfriend at my church, and I know most of the hymns and they have emotional resonance with me, but I am seriously unconcerned with Jesus’ divinity. My desire for and attraction to a religious congregation is exclusively cultural (as in, I want a regular group celebration of “God is great and wants us to help and love each other” to be part of my life).

I am concerned with how a group uses its holy text to direct everyday life and in politics, and I’ve been seeking a religious community that is committed to social progressiveness and liberalism.

Mr Moto, I haven’t looked much into Methodism, no! I remember liking what they had to say about classism and (IIRC) labor unions. I’ll investigate. Thanks!

9

non-Jew, ostensibly Catholic, erstwhile religion major here.

You sound more like a match for a Unitarian or a Quaker congregation to me. Both are very much about community, almost always socially progressive, and are very much about each person having their own religious journey and relationship with God. In a Unitarian church especially you will find a group of people pulled from many different backgrounds and at many different places on their spiritual journeys.

You might find the synagogue you’ve mentioned a welcoming place. But most of the people there will come from a Jewish background and to a certain extent, though they may not be excluding, you will be an outsider.

10

Here’s another vote for Unitarian or one of the liberal Protestant sects (Congragationalist, Quaker, etc…) where you’d probably fit in better.

11

Yeah, my first thought was Unitarian also – I don’t know if they have UU (Unitarian/Universalist) churches in the UK, though. There are a slew of different brands of Methodism, some of which are significantly more conservative than others, so tread carefully there.

Yes, community is absolutely fundamental to religion, as opposed to spirituality – but that community is premised on shared beliefs. If you don’t share the beliefs, you’re not really part of the community.

12

If I found out that someone was regularly attending a flavor of religious services, but did not consider themselves not intended to convert to that flavor, I’d kind of…wonder. I wouldn’t say I personally have a problem with it, because to me personally it’s all a bit ridiculous to begin with, but I probably would wonder what your motives truly were.

I know Judaism traditionally is not terribly easy to convert to - you can’t just show up and get dunked and bam you’re a Jew - but I haven’t a clue if that’s relevant at all. I also know that there sometimes is some friction between ‘mainstream’ Judaism and messianic Judaism, so I imagine that could potentially be seen as an issue.

I personally, based solely on my experiences, would not consider Judaism to be particularly compatible in any way with modern feminism, but that’s just my two cents. It’s also my opinion that while there are progressive ideas to be found in many non-Orthodox congregations, they don’t come from the Old Testament (which - again, my opinion - is little more than some distressingly insane stories about an angry god, then a whole lot of rules, then some more insane stories, all of which are taken together to express the idea that if you do not follow the rules [and maybe even if you do, cf Job] God will wreck your shit), but secondary sources, so to speak.

If you want to celebrate Purim, I personally have no problem, but I can kind of understand why some people would. I think Judaism, not surprisingly, tends to have a somewhat cautious approach to outsiders in general; it’s not a religion that proselytizes and outsiders taking an interest hasn’t always worked out so great in the past.

Then again, I’m a heathen who thinks that while some organized religion is more tolerable than others they’re all pretty awful, so my opinion might not be worth the pixels it’s written in. So. What I would recommend is…go talk to the rabbi. I’ve heard they don’t bite, and obviously the head of the congregation is the only one who can tell you if you’d really be welcome for your purposes.

13

Judaism is not a proselytizing religion, and does not, on the whole, want or seek converts from something else.

14

Reading your later post it seems like you are not really seeking God as much as fellowship of like minded people. Religion is a way of going about this, if this ‘off label’ use upsets God more then other ways I’m not sure even if it upsets Him. On one hand you may meet people who bring you to Him, OTOH you may discourage people truly seeking God by your intentions of not seeking God, but fellowship.

God weighs the heart. If the desire that is in your heart is to help God’s people, and you believe finding fellowship is required then that God can use (which seems may be the case), if you are using it for self service purposes such as finding romantic relationships or social acceptability, that God is less likely to use in a positive matter IMHO.

I think you and Him have to sit down and try to find what your heart is trying to accomplish.

15

Right. Forgive me for saying this, but I think you are approaching this in the worst possible way. You are putting your political values first and looking for a religion that can justify them, rather than trying to find a faith that fits your beliefs about the nature of God and his relationship with the universe.

Now, you can continue your quest for a liberal club with included prayer circle, or you can just find a church and work the political in other ways - like Southern Baptist Bill Clinton or Roman Catholic Nancy Pelosi or Morman Harry Reid.

16

:dubious:

Plenty of orthodox Jews are self-righteous and kind of obnoxious. I mean, they believe that there is one god, and that one god chose the Jews alone from among all of the world’s peoples to be "The Chosen People"TM. Doesn’t get more self-righteous than that.

17

A practical concern: the services will be conducted largely in Hebrew. Would you be okay with not having any idea what’s going on for most of the time? Also, seating for men and women is divided up during services. Would your feminist sensibilities be offended by a requirement that you stay in the balcony during worship?

Your idea seems wacky, but if you’re really into it, I would recommend a less orthodox synagogue. The one you’ve chosen seems to be a part of the Masorti movement, a splinter movement of Jewish Conservatism (which is between Orthodox and Reform). I have no idea of the religious climate in Anglo Jewry, but if you were in the U.S., I’d recommend you check out a Reform synagogue, or a Reconstructionist synagogue, where a large proportion of the service would be conducted in English, and you would see female rabbis. If you were really lucky, you might be able to find a Humanistic Jewish synagogue, which basically throws the religious aspect out the window and just focuses on the cultural aspect.

18

When I was in my confirmation year, we went on a weekend retreat with the rabbi. One of the days was spent being separated into 7 different groups, with each group given a set of “beliefs” they were to do the exercises under. For instance, one group was assigned the “G-d is an omnipotent, omnipresent being who created the universe and all things in it” model. Another group was told to do their exercises as if G-d was more of an abstract that existed in the hearts and minds of individuals, somewhat like a conscience. Another group was assigned the “agnostic” label, and so on.

Throughout the day we did things like, “list the Jewish holidays in order of importance as to how the G-d (or non-G-d) our group was assigned would rank them”. “Draw a picture of what your G-d would look like if he (or she) could be depicted”. I don’t recall all the exercises, but you get the drift.

At the end of the day the rabbi asked us if anyone could tell him what the point of the day’s exercises had been. Almost everyone in the room thought we were doing a “comparative religions” study. Lo and behold, we were studying Judaism in all (or many) of its forms and fashions. The object lesson was, Judaism doesn’t have a “creed”. There’s nothing you have to “believe” to be a Jew. Our particular congregation held several different styles of Shabbat services on a rotating basis for just that reason, including one that never mentioned the word G-d.

Every congregation is going to be and feel different, though, even to an established Jew. There are synagogues that I feel so out of place in, I couldn’t do more than attend an event as an invitee, such as a wedding or other ritual, and that includes both the ultra-Orthodox and the ultra-Reform.

The bottom line is, the Jewish congregation may very well turn out to be where you feel most comfortable, in spite of any differences of opinion you may have about G-d. It could, however, be as uncomfortable for you as the reform synagogue that didn’t allow its congregants to even wear tallit (the traditional prayer shawl) in the sanctuary was to me.

Only you will know for sure, and you can only find out by attending a few services and perhaps talking to the rabbi.

By the way:

I wish you all the best in finding a comfortable home to worship in, wherever that may be.

19

Somewhat true, but many web sites for reform congregations will have information about conversion.

FWIW, my path to Judaism took many years, even though half of my family (Dad’s side) is Jewish. I was raised Lutheran, drifted towards Unitarian Universalism, checked out a service at a reform synagogue several years afterward, and felt like I was finally “home”, spiritually speaking.

After moving from Cleveland to Austin, practicing has become something of a challenge. I can’t afford to live anywhere near Austin’s small-ish Jewish community, and Friday services start shortly after work; I’ve got to start leaving work on Friday early if I want to make it to that night’s service at the area’s reform congregations. In most smaller metropolitan areas, Jews will be clustered in one or two neighborhoods, where most Jewish institutions will be located. Live outside of those areas, and it’s as if you’re part of the “diaspora of the diaspora”.

20

I think that’s a little misleading as to what the term “The Chosen People” means, at least to Jews. You’ll probably have to wait till after the Sabbath for a more full explanation from the experts, but the Jews were chosen in the sense that extra obligations were imposed upon them.

Ed