Moving thread from IMHO to Great Debates.
Just an IMHO answer, but I think it would be pretty ackward to stay Christian and worship at a Jewish synagogue. Think of it in terms of a Scientologist asking the Pope to do a brain audit for him or a Mormon asking a you to bless his underwear with an appropriate prayer from the Book of Mormon.
Christianity may look upon Judaism as a backwards-compatible option, but to Jews, Christianity is a cult started by a confidence man or madman. It would be rather awkward to have someone in their place of worship who’s going around following the words of this ancient lying charlatan.
So pretty much you need to either convert to Judaism, or you need to find a church that follows what you believe.
Being Unitarians and not part of the UUA, they have slightly different principals. And they are Unitarians, not Unitarian Universalists. But for someone thinking about going to a synagogue but not converting to Judaism, the distinction probably isn’t important.
One of my favorite Jewish folktales is that G-d held a mountain over the Jews while asking ‘Do you want to be my people?’.
Ninja Chick ‘messianic Jews’ are not Jews. You can take my word for it or you can wait till sundown when the Industrial Strength Jews of the SDMB will back me up with Torah and Talmud cites. Judaism does believe in a messiah. Jesus of Nazareth does not qualify as that messiah (check Maimonides list of Things You Must Do To Be The Messiah).
Tracy Lord I advise you to keep looking. You will probably not have much trouble finding a synagogue to welcome you. But as has been said, you will be an outsider. Again, your position on a certain carpenter shall mark you as not truly belonging. I advise you to ask the many Christians of the SDMB what branch of Christianity you would best fit with.
OK. :deep breath: You’re not a Christian.
That is, you seem indifferent to the idea of the divinity of Yeshua. You’re looking for a this-worldly religion with fellowship ranked high, & eschatology ranked low. The criticisms here of a Christian trying to worship as a Christian (:rolleyes: @ Sage Rat) don’t apply to you.
The “righteous Gentile” path may be right for you. Give it a shot.
First off, what I’m saying is true for American Judaism. I’d check with a Brit for British Judaism, and an Israeli for Israeli issues, etc, etc. The most important thing you’d need to do is…don’t proselytize for Christianity. In any way, shape, or form (don’t worry, I don’t get the sense at all that this is your intent.) Other than that?
If you came to my shul, I would think you were a little weird, but I’d be rather charmed. Honestly, I’d probably also assume that you were there to start the conversion process, but no one at a Conservative, Reform, or Reconstructionist shul is going to hassle you if you say you aren’t. (They’ll just be confused.) Again, that’s assuming you weren’t there to proselytize. If you do, the responses won’t be friendly, and they won’t be polite.
There’s a lot of Hebrew at Conservative services (forget Ortho - you’d be completely lost.) If you sat next to me, I’d be very happy to sit with you and point to where we were. You shouldn’t have any trouble finding help, just lean over and say that you could use some assistance. They’ll probably assume that you’re there for whatever kid’s Bar or Bat Mitzvah is going on that weekend.
Truly, avoid the Orthodox shuls. Chasidic, modern Ortho, doesn’t matter. They won’t hassle you to convert, but they will give you more problems for being there, and as a feminist, they’ll give you agita. Careful with the Conservative shul you pick if try one. I looked at the website you linked to. It sounds lovely, but don’t go to the service in the main sanctuary - go to the one upstairs. You want a fully egalitarian service. Most Conservative shuls are fully egalitarian, but not all of them are. Where you might run into problems though, is if you try to take a leadership position. Bluntly put, I don’t think you’d get one. That may not matter to you. And I’m not sure how tenable a Conservative place would be in the long term. Unless you stuck to Fri nights only, you’d have a 3 hour Sat morning service that you mostly didn’t understand. I can’t think that would help you spiritually. Unless you want to learn liturgical Hebrew, which doesn’t seem worth it.
I think you’d be much better off with a Reform shul or a Reconstructionist shul. I don’t know anything about the latter, but you should have no trouble at all with a Reform place. They are used to reaching out to non-Jews to get them to participate, namely the spouses in intermarried couples. (They don’t just randomly reach out to non-Jews, of course.) I sang in a Reform choir with non-Jewish woman who was very active in raising her Jewish kids in the temple. She never converted, and absolutely no one gave a damn. (Bear in mind though, her kids would not have been considered Jewish in a Conservative or Orthodox shul.)
And to echo other posters, you might be just as happy or happier in a Unitarian or Quaker church. They sound like lovely places, with strong social justice themes. And you could take leadership positions there - run for Church President, teach Sunday School, etc. Don’t bother with a Messianic Jewish church - that isn’t real Judaism.
I did see that she didn’t believe in the divinity of Jesus. But at the same time she was saying that she wants to remain Presbyterian, to practice a faith based on the Golden Rule, and to be able to keep on using all the psalms and songs she already knows. That’s Christianity. “Secularist Christianity” or something perhaps, but still something that would be based on a few thousand years of teachings that originated with Jesus.
I don’t think ‘righteous Gentile’ is the phrase you are looking for. Any non Jew who is basically their brother’s keeper is a righteous gentile- Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Schindler, King Christian II of Denmark, etc.
I believe what you mean is Noahide. Basically, G-d gave Noah 7 commandments. Judaism says that any gentile who who believes that there is one G-d, but for some reason does not want to convert fully to Judaism (it is a very hard and long process), may pronounce themselves a Noahide and live life by those seven commandments.
The commandments are
not to deny G-d
not to blaspheme G-d
not to murder
Not to engage in sexual immorality
not to steal
not to eat a limb torn from a living animal
To set up courts to enforce these laws.
If you’re a Christian who no longer believes in the divinity of Christ, becoming a Noahide may be for you.
I would suggest checking out the [URL=“http://www.urc.org.uk/”]United Reformed ChurchURL] in England. Liberal/moderate Presbyterians, Congregationalists, and mainline Churches of Christ combined to form the URC, which is perhaps why you’re having problems finding a suitably liberal Presbyterian congregation.
I actually would not recommend a Quaker congregation, unless you’ve had experience with unprogrammed (i.e. silent) worship, which can be unsettling for folks who aren’t used to it already.
I’m guessing the principles are different as well.
Yeah, those too…
Forget about a leadership position, I don’t think she’s going to find any Conservative/Masorti syanagogue that’s going to let a non-Jew, especially one that has no intentions of converting, even become a member.
That phrase does not even remotely mean what you apparently unfortunately think it means. Chosen People generally means chosen to receive the torah not (as anti-Semites would have it) chose to be above other peoples.
So keep fighting my ignorance–what does “chosen to receive the Torah” mean exactly?
If you can’t decide, there’s always macramé!
Judaism doesn’t have a chokehold on believing oneself to be of a chosen people. It is however one of the few popularly practiced ethnic religions in the modern world.
Tracy, I am still confused about what you are looking for.
The issue is obviously not that you want to pray with those who fit with your theological beliefs and perspectives as the differences between Judaism and Christianity are fundamental ones.
The issue is not that you want to be where the prayers, tunes, and service are familiar and comfortable to you as even the amount of Hebrew in a Reform congregation and the tunes and structure will be foreign to you.
It seems that you are instead looking for a community that shares your interests in finding meaning in the Bible/Torah in a more abstract way (you’d like hearing and discussing the week’s Dvar Torah I suspect), and a commitment to social justice (Tikkun Olam).
Now it is true that many Reform Congregations in America at least have many non-Jews in attendance - a result the large number of interfaith families that participate - but even there I must wonder if a non-Jew unattached to a Jewish significant other and uninterested in conversion will be embraced as part of the community.
Maybe a there is an interfaith group committed to social action that might be a better fit?
That said, my guess is that your local temple is one of Britain’s Liberal Judaism congregations and those are more progressive than even most US Reform ones. Maybe you should make an appointment with their Rabbi and see how he reacts to your interest?
The Torah sets out a set of laws, rules, and obligations for ethical living. Jews have chosen to take on these obligations, along with the law from whence they sprang. Non Jews are not expected to accept the law or the obligations.
Jewfaq to the rescue once again
Because of our acceptance of Torah, Jews have a special status in the eyes of G-d, but we lose that special status when we abandon Torah. Furthermore, the blessings that we received from G-d by accepting the Torah come with a high price: Jews have a greater responsibility than non-Jews. While non-Jews are only obligated to obey the seven commandments given to Noah, Jews are responsible for fulfilling the 613 mitzvot in the Torah, thus G-d will punish Jews for doing things that would not be a sin for non-Jews.
Essentially, Jews are “chosen” - to obey a lot of rules not applicable to non-Jews.
In Judaism, being Jewish doesn’t make you any better than a non-Jew. You just have more obligations.
A non-Jew (in Judaism) who is a “noahide” - that is, obeys the very basic 7 Noahide laws (such stuff as “don’t steal” and “don’t murder”) - is just as righteous as the most observant Jew.
You may well ask, then, why be a Jew? Unlike in Christianity, being Jewish isn’t a pre-requisite for any sort of salvation, and no guarantee of being ranked higher by God than a non-Jew.
Actually, that’s a good question. But then, Judaism isn’t a prostheletizing religion.
That “chosen people” business is massively misunderstood by many.
OK, fine. Maybe I was wrong to describe Jews as “self-righteous,” but I still think it is odd to believe that the one god in the whole universe singled out your people for special obligations. If not self-righteous, that’s at least self-centered or jingoistic or something.
Also, don’t Jews believe that the Messiah will be Jewish (I’m pretty sure that’s correct). Do Jews believe that the Messiah will bring benefits to those who aren’t Jews (i.e., Gentiles who observe the Noahide laws, others?)? If both of the above are correct, then Jews get a fairly nice reward for being saddled with additional obligations–i.e., the guy that comes to save the world is one of them.
Finally, I also believe that plenty of members of other religious groups are similarly self-centered, so don’t think I’m singling out Jews.