But some hardcore vegans think that meat-eating should be a crime. They’re the types who take the “Meat is murder!” bumper stickers literally. It’s like the rest of us are a bunch of brainwashed fools with some evil sadistic types keeping us ignorant of the rights of animals.
Yes, it’s completely possible. My partner of 23 yrs and I had one, me being the veggie…I did not mind him eating meat around me, as long I as didn’t have to handle or prepare it, and I prefered not to have it cooked in the house; no moral objections, just the stink, which to a veggie can be as bad as cig. smoke to a non-smoker, honestly. All of which meant he didn’t eat it all that often, but it wasn’t an issue for us…he didn’t miss it that much most of the time, ate it when he wanted to, and it didn’t bother me at all when he did. But the details given in the OP’s case are worrysome.
She obviously has a problem with him eating meat/using other animal products, and has gone so far as to reveal her true feelings in a tirade against his character and morals. Despite the apology, this doesn’t sound like someone who “doesn’t mind” as long as you don’t do it around her. It sounds like someone who is deeply bothered by it and will not be completely at peace until she has converted you.
Bear in mind that it will be a hell of a lot harder to not do it around here and keep it “out of sight, out of mind” in a co-habitation situation…as in impossible.
Given her displeasure with your dietary choices to date, the most likely scenario will be her growing more and more pissed about the issue, more and more conflict emerging, and eventual break-up when she realizes you have no intention of eventually going veggie/vegan. I could be wrong, but it seems to me that this is a deal-breaker for her, whether she admits to the fact currently or not; I suspect she has hopes she CAN eventually bring you around to her way.
If the relationship really is as great otherwsie as you say, it might be worth saving, but that will only happen if the two of you can reach a place of mutual respect and honest acceptance of the others’ beliefs and diets. BEFORE you move in together!
Not going to happen, I’m afraid.
Tell her you’re sorry, but it’s not going to work, it’s not you it’s her*, and Walk Away. Your sanity will thank you, as will your friends. (Again, trust me, once she’s done lecturing you, she’ll start criticising your friends and their dining choices as well).
*Or another approriate cliche 
I am a vegetarian and my husband eats meat constantly. I wish he’d eat less for health reasons, and I grocery shop appropriately, but I decided long ago this wasn’t a battle I could win.
My best friend is a vegan and his SO is a meat eater. He used to say things to me similar to what the OP’s girlfriend is saying, that he was disgusted by the meat eating, wasn’t sure if he could handle it, etc. I told him flat out, he had to decide if he could deal with it or not, because the guy was not going to become vegan. Period. If his other good qualities (of which there are many) are outweighed by this one thing, then walk away. If not, then let it go. He let it go. They have been together 5 years now and it seems to have faded into a non-issue.
Both of us, my friend and I, have made efforts, by cooking and shopping, to decrease the amount of meat our guys eat, mostly for health reasons, frankly. Ethically, we’re not going to align with them on this, and it’s not worth fighting about. If the OP’s GF can find a way to come to this compromise, great. I think they should talk about it frankly and openly, and see where the discussion goes. If, at the end of the convo, they realize it’s too large an obstacle, then walk away. I would not pre-emptively break up with her without having the conversation first, though. That seems a bit rash.
I just wanted to add that the whole definition of “vegan” always bothered me, meaning that it has been claimed to mean something more than simply someone who doesn’t eat animal products OR even more than someone who uses no animal products whatsoever BUT to mean this whole ethical, political, lifestyle.
I was a “dietary vegan” for about 5 yrs of my 15 yr and ongoing experience as a vegetarian, meaning I ate no animal products whatsoever but DID have some leather footwear, wool and silk, etc…in my possession…though most of it was purchased second-hand, not that that mattered to THEM:rolleyes:)
I never could STAND the vegans I knew…almost to a person, they were self-righteous, judgmental, shrill individuals intent on shoving their ideology down everyone else’s throats. Plus I resented that when I used the term to describe my own dietary choices, I was often lumped in with these folk. To ME, it simply was the most efficient way of communicating that I did not eat meat, dairy, eggs, lard, etc…NOT some manifesto on animal rights, etc…
Not that I don’t support animal rights and choose not to support such abominations as factory farming and fur…I DO, but it was and is not my primary reason for being vegetarian (or vegan). Health, environmental and economic reasons, and simple personal preference rank higher.
If your GF sees you as a murderer, not just as someone damaging your health or preferring different foods, THAT is the problem, not the diet either of you choose.
I don’t think it’s rash to DTMFA with no further discussions. I mean, she’s already told him he has no morals or ethics, and that every time she sees an animal she envisions him eating it. At that point, you can pretty much guarantee she ain’t gonna let it go.
This isn’t going to work for more reasons than the eating habits. The major problem isn’t that she’s a vegan and he isn’t. The problem is the flatly disrespectful way she broaches the issue. The whole “no morals” thing is absolutely beyond the pale–you don’t say stuff like that to people you love and respect. You just DON’T, because your love and respect for them stops you.
A relationship where one partner doesn’t love and respect the other enough to refrain from deliberately saying godawful hurtful shit…it can last, but not happily.
You know, pretty much every “what should I do about my relationship” thread has the DTMFA advice in it. What can a conversation really hurt? If she says something awful to him, after doing it rashly once and apologizing, then he knows where he stands. Maybe she sincerely regrets saying something so hurtful and has revised her stance. If you’ve never said something hyperbolic in anger, then I guess you can feel free to cast the first stone.
People make mistakes and say things they shouldn’t say and don’t really mean in the heat of the moment. It’s up to the OP, not you, to decide if her comments were “beyond the pale.” She obviously thinks his likening of a hog’s life to a plant’s life is beyond the pale. Perhaps they can compromise or live and let live, if they discuss it rationally and with love. I wouldn’t be so quick to write the whole thing off, having seen a couple in a similar place make it work long-term.
Yeah, I wonder how many LTRs are out there where no one has ever said a godawful, hurtful thing to the other. I’m guessing none. But like I said, it’s up to the OP, and I don’t think she did anything so abominable that he couldn’t, if he were so inclined, have an open conversation with her first before dumping. YMMV, but if he feels that, aside from this issue, there is serious potential and otherwise mutual respect, he has nothing to lose and a lot to gain by talking.
I don’t know, but if someone is saying stuff like that in the early stages, before even living together, it doesn’t bode well for later. Good Lord, my husband of 23 yrs and I didn’t even have an ARGUMENT for the first several years, and we certainly never hurled such verbal abuse at one another.
As so many have expressed, this has to do with her atttitude towards his beliefs (which don’t mesh with hers), her fanatical stance on her beliefs, and her apparent (already bluntly expressed) complete lack of respect for him as a person.
Ultimately has nothing to do with eating habits.
I read an interview with Mel Gibson once in which he said that, yeah, as far as he was concerned, his wife WAS going to Hell, because, despite her being the greatest person ever, she wasn’t a Catholic. :eek: I thought, my God (no pun intended) how could you be married to someone who thought you were doomed to eternal damnation? Or with someone whom you THOUGHT was?
Another predictable SDMB relationship thread comment: “my SO and I never fight!” OK, cool. The fact that other people do, and that sometimes people say things they shouldn’t say in anger, isn’t all that rare either. If the girlfriend is really sorry and won’t do it again, and the OP can forgive her, and they can have a real discussion about it and come to a true understanding, shouldn’t they try? Why be in such a rush to chuck the whole thing? Have the conversation, and if it goes badly, then you can walk away with a clear conscience.
The early stages of a relationship are an adjustment period. There CAN be bumps in the road that are survivable. No bumps in your relationship road? Bully for you. Other people’s roads are not as smooth as yours. Count yourself lucky, but dole out your advice with that in mind.
Hey, I never SAID there were no bumps in our relationship. The last few yrs were pretty damned rough, as a matter of fact, and we had our smaller bumps along the way (and then he died)
I was merely offering my experience, not just of my own relationship (and I think that is worth SOMETHING, considering it lasted and was mostly happy for almost of a quarter of a century) but of many I’ve seen along the way…that degree of conflict so early on, in the so-called “honeymoon” period, is OFTEN a sign that should be heeded, ESP. when it revolves around an issue as deep as the one the OP describes. (not dietary choices but lack of respect and irreconcilable differences in outlook and lifestyle)
If she is blasting him about this NOW, and they don’t somehow resolve the underlying issues, it will NOT get better with time. It will either just keep getting worse and/or be suppressed only to blow back up, possibly in a different form (resentments, disagreements re’ other issues, etc…) later.
I never suggested the relationship was not worth fighting for (in fact, I suggested that if it WAS as great as he said in other repspects, they should try to work it out before moving further/in).
The issue also is not “fighting”, it is the WAY she was fighting…attacking him personally as opposed to expressing her anger and frustration over their differing views in a constructive way. Red flag.
Yeah, that could be why I said they should TALK about it. I never claimed, nor remotely implied, that it would somehow just get better with time.
Some people have a honeymoon period, and some people have to duke it out in the beginning and settle into a peaceful co-existence after an adjustment period. Why not try talking before dumping? I can’t believe I’m getting so much resistance to the idea of a mere conversation before ending a relationship that the OP has expressed that he enjoyed on most levels.
Well, you weren’t getting any resistance from ME on the idea of trying to work it out. Perhaps that needs further clarification.
I was just stating my opinion that her resorting to personal attacks on his character/integrity, etc…, esp. so early on, was a warning sign that this conflict goes deeper than simple dietary options, and IF they wanted to try and make it work, they should hash those out before proceeding any further.
I agree that some relationships require more front-work (and maybe I WAS just fortunate to be in one that didn’t). But the point still being that that work needs to be done for anything productive and long-term to ensue. We really aren’t disagreeing on anything here, as far as I can see. 
OP, she sounds like a nice girl, mostly, and it seems like you want this to work out. It’s certainly worth trying.
Would you be willing to make the compromise to only eat non-factory farmed meat? Only meat from animals that lived happy, as-natural-as-possible lives on organic farms? I recently read the book "The Omnivore’s Dilemma" in which Michael Pollan describes Polyface farm, and it sounds genuinely humane and sustainable. It seems the resulting meat is also better tasting and healthier, too. Is it the deaths of the animals, or the suffering and environmental damage that factory farming creates that bothers her most? If it’s just the deaths, there really isn’t any compromising, but suffering and environmental issues can be greatly reduced with responsible farming.
Just a thought as a possible compromise, and at least worth talking about. You might want to look at the above book just to get an idea of where she’s coming from. I’m not saying should become a vegetarian, but a broader understanding of the issues can help you discuss this logically with her. Good luck to you both.
I’m more than happy to make that compromise. I don’t enjoy animal suffering any more than she does. I’m not sure exactly which aspect of the omnivore diet is most disdainful to her but I’d venture to guess it’s the suffering much more than the death itself. Perhaps this might be a reasonable compromise. But then again, she may still have the objection that they are still in captivity and not as nature intended (whatever that really means) and therefore inhumane. It’s definitely worth a shot.
A slight aside: I want to give a great big thanks to everyone who has replied here (yes, even those who called into question my empathy and level of tolerance 
). I’ve been on this forum for a while and, as I’m not a specialist or expert in anything in particular, found I have little to contribute to the group. As such, I’ve always been a bit hesitant to post something asking for advice and help from others (minor things such as book or video game advice notwithstanding). But you guys are really quite a tremendous group and I am very grateful for all the help and advice. It truly means a lot to me. 
Ruby, I never said he shouldn’t have the conversation, I said I didn’t think he would be rash to skip it. There’s a difference. If he wants to have this conversation, I think he ought to go for it. But if he doesn’t want to have that conversation, I don’t think he would be over-hasty to go on and get out if he wants to.
And yeah, I’ve said godawful shit in the heat of anger and hurt people very deeply. It’s why I flatly refuse to discuss things when I’m angry, and have since I was about 15–I don’t know what might come flying out of my mouth, but I do know that once it’s out there, it’s out there and can’t be taken back. You can apologize, but apologizing only mitigates the damage, it doesn’t erase it. And I also know that when you say hyperbolic things in anger, they don’t just spring up out of the thin air. They come from things you already think, whether you’re talking about somebody throwing their dirty socks in the floor or their personality defects. Just like alcohol, anger strips away the inhibitions, revealing the real you and amplifying it.
This girl probably doesn’t think that the OP has no morals or ethics, but the fact that she said it indicates that she does find his ethics and morals lacking to some extent. This is a problem. It’s a big problem.
If someone tells you point blank that you are immoral etc. for a lifestyle choice, and then apologizes later you had best believe that the apology will be a make nice gesture and that they still consider you fundamentally immoral in their heart of hearts. At this point it appears you are loathe to let her go because you desire her good qualities, but you had best understand that underneath the pretty package is a fundamental contempt for your culinary lifestyle, and you by extension.
At this point IMO* you* are one dealing in bad faith. She has told you (honestly) how she feels about your behavior, and now you are dithering about ending the relationship because you don’t want to give up a hot, cute little Ayatollah. The issue for you at this point is simply how much of a whipping over time you are willing to take to hold on to her.
Beyond all this is the looming issue others have referenced re having children. Dr. Laura is usually a shrill PITA but she has some occasional pearls. A woman called in once and indicated that she was devout, and was in love with an agnostic/atheist man. Dr. Laura observed that when a man and women have differing philosophies on something fundamentally important to them they can often get along until children enter the picture, and at that point the more hardcore believing partner is going to take a far firmer stand in directing how the children are raised, and this often pushes the less hardcore partner to the margins of family life, and can be a huge source of conflict.
True. I have seen this happen a couple of times.
This is my boyfriend and I. He was a vegetarian because when he was young he cared about animals, but as he got older it was simply habit. Neither of us were hardcore about our beliefs, and as such, instead of eating meat 5 days/week, I now eat it 1-2, and 90% of the time it’s fish. He, at my encouragement, tried and likes several types of fish, and just today he devoured an extra-lean hormone-free burger. We met in the middle - but early on, it was easy, because nobody was judgemental about the other person - which doesn’t seem like this is your situation.
Meeting in the middle has made us both healthier - it’s helped him put on more weight from lifting (he’s fairly thin naturally) and has helped me lose weight by eating less meat overall. I feel that things like how much garlic, onions, and spice a person likes are vastly more important when cooking together (we like a lot of all three).
But, like Dr. Drake said, vegans are a whole 'nother thing. Most are extremely judgmental, and your girlfriend is no exception. Please don’t get suckered in and made to feel stupid for your choices. People are so self-loathing; if meat makes you happy and it tastes delicious to you (and isn’t affecting your health), don’t give it up. It’s that simple. She will slowly make you hate her by her controlling behavior and need to push her virulent beliefs onto you.
Get out of there now. Do it gracefully and maybe you can at least be friends. As lovers and roommates, you don’t stand a chance unless one of you is willing to do a complete turn around. If that one of you turns out to be you, it won’t be the only complete turn around she will demand and you can bet on that.
Saw this today and thought of this thread:
http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2005/4/18gray.html
And here’s a serious take on this very topic!