The event you are talking about occurred in 1982. The Israeli Army was controlling the area around the camp and let in the Lebanese Christian militia (Phalange) to kill about 2,000 Palestinian men, women, and children refugees.
Sharon was the target of an investigation with other commanders by a commision of the Israeli gov’t appointed to investigate the massacre. No one was ever convicted.
Last year, a suit was brought against Sharon in a Belgian court
charging him with war crimes r/t massacre in 82. A Lebanese militia leader of the Phalange who was involved in massacre agreed to testify against Sharon. The end of last year, he was assassinated by Israeli agents in Lebanon before he could testify. This trial is now on hold. They are still trying to find witnesses.
And of course, recently, Sharon has ordered his army to shell refugee camps and civilian areas indiscriminately. Troops have attacked medical personnel and journalists. Shut down power and H2o to hospitals during assaults on civilian areas–denying medical care to EVERYONE, not just ‘terrorists’. The Red Cross in Ramallah and Bethleham cannot reach the wounded. People are locked in there homes and shot if they leave (shoot 1st ask ?? later).
Anyone wonder why they are sooo against the press being there?
Sharon did not order refugee camps and civilian areas be shelled indiscriminately. A curfew was put in place. A war is going on. Notice that now for five days no suicide bomb has gone off in Israel? Sharon may be a hawk and his tactics are fierce, but sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. Peaceful means did not work. After the peace process was started, there were two suicide bombs in two days, and Israel and Sharon turned the other cheek and did nothing in order to further the peace process. Then on the third day, another suicidal bomber. What do you expect Israel to do? Her citizens could not go on the streets either, because of these suicidal attacks.
and all it took was a massive re-occupation of the west bank, which now is causing untold death and destruction to the Palestinians. I’m sure now that’s done, the Arab population will stop hating Israel and peace will now shine. :rolleyes:
Spoken like a true warmongerer, peaceful means were never tried by either side.
No - like others said, the IDF let the Phalanges in to hunt down assasins; they did not let them to kill civilians, as that would serve no purpose. And although I’m not sure about the military brass, Sharon himself was dismissed as Minister of Defence, and prohibited from holding that position in the future.
There is ablolutely no evidence that israel was behind the assasination - in fact, most people believe he was killed by the Palestinians; after all, he was the one who actually led the massacre. The fact that the Belgian court offered him immunity in return for his testimony shows just how biased that country is.
Indiscriminatly? You must not know much about modern weapons. If the IDF had been firing indicriminately, the death toll of the last few days would have reached the thousands, if not tens of thousands.
Medical personnel have been aiding the enemy, and journalists have been disobeying police orders. I’d like to think what would happen to theses same journalists if they had tried to walk into Camp X-Ray on Gitmo.
Besides, the Palestinians have been stressing over and over that anyone could be a suicide bomber, and the Israelis have taken the lesson to heart.
Because they’re winning. The press always sides with the losers.
Alessan, please help me out. You wrote: “I’d like to think what would happen to theses same journalists if they had tried to walk into Camp X-Ray on Gitmo.”
I thought Camp X-Ray was a secure area on a U.S. military base. Are you implying that the West Bank or parts of it are Iraeli military bases? I’ve never heard that claim before although I suppose it would explain a lot.
Nevermind wrote: “Anyone wonder why they are sooo against the press being there?” and in response you wrote: “Because they’re winning. The press always sides with the losers.”
This too confuses me. Maybe I don’t watch the same TV stations or read the same papers you do but in the last big conflict that I remember, the Taliban were the losers. Does the press side with the Taliban? Before that, the Serbs were the losers. Do you feel that the press sided with them? Before that, the Iraqi’s lost. Did the press side with Iraq? You write that …“the press always sides with the losers.” Maybe I misunderstand your use of the word “always.” I’m sure many readers of this board are as confused as I and would appreciate your explanation. Thanks in advance.
That last statement is so ridiculous it doesn’t even deserve a response. Let me list just a few of the peaceful overtures Israel made. Barak offered most of what Arafat wanted, and Arafat turned it down flat, without any counteroffer. Peace negotiations were once more resumed with the aid of the US. One terrorist attack followed another against Israel, until Israel said “Enough is enough.”
Israel maintains it is targeting only the militants. There has been some “collateral damage,” but it insists it has been careful to avoid unnecessary deaths.
Let me put this in perspective for you. After 9-11, should the US have tried to negotiate with terrorists? The US has had several terrorist acts against us. Several; perhaps as many as half a dozen. Israel lives with those terrorist acts on a daily basis.
I had to run to play tennis at my last post, so I did not put everything I wanted. Alessan has added some good points. As far as the ambulances, I note the following.
On March 27, a Palestinian Red Crescent ambulance driver was caught transporting an explosive belt containing 10 kilograms of explosives of the type detonated by suicide bombers, Israel Radio reported. The ambulance was stopped and searched between Nablus and Ramallah, and soldiers found the explosive belt under a stretcher upon which a Palestinian boy was lying. The boy’s family was with him in the ambulance.
The ambulance driver told interrogators he received the belt from a senior Tanzim activist working for Palestinian Authority West Bank security chief Marwan Barghouti.
Moishe Begin,
Yitzakh Shamir,
Ariel Sharon
Major General Drori
Lt. General Eitan
Major General Saguy
Bgr. General Yaron
Sharon was dismissed as Defence Minister, Saguy as Director of Military Intelligence, and Yaron lost his command. It wasn’t a criminal investigation, so there wouldn’t be any “convictions”. It did, however, affect people’s careers and reputations.
No, they are not military bases; however, they are areas under military control. For a closer parallel, consider that the U.S. armed forces prevented entry to journalists in several locations during their operations in Aphganistan, and in many other instances only allowed U.S. crews under close supervision.
Heavy-handed irony aside, you’re correct - I was being more flip than factual. Let me amend my statement: “In most cases in which the journalist’s own country (and thus own viewers/readers) is not involved, the journalist will sympathise more with the side which appears to be suffering more, regardless of circumstances.” By definition, the side suffering more is the loser. Better?
I also don’t quite understand this. Aren’t medical personnel supposed to help all those in need, regardless of what side they are on? Are you saying that they shouldn’t give Palestinians help because they are fighting the Israels? That sounds quite cold blooded.
Yeah, I saw the photo of some Israeli police shooting a Palestinian in the head in cold blood. That surely is an interesting way of looking at things.
Because they’re winning. The press always sides with the losers. **
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