international observers shot during peace march -- the violence must stop!

This happened just today. Three British, one American, one Australian and one Palestinian cameraman who may have been working for the BBC. It’s also here, buried after the third subtitle.

About an hour ago I heard a tape of this shooting on Pacifica radio. I think it was broadcast live as it was happening this morning on WBAI.

This is craziness. This is out of control. Sharon has to pull back. He is not saving anyone. He is not making things better.

I hope the cameraman’s tape was not confiscated or destroyed. It contains the key to the truth.

Remember Cesar Chavez’s legacy of non-violence on his official holiday today.

Latest report. Third from last paragraph.

US State Dept. has called for an investigation. One woman hit in the stomach, others wounded by shrapnel. The Palestinian cameraman worked for AP. They marched up to a tank, like the Chinese guy during Tienanmen.

There is nothing special about these deaths., except that they are forgein.

Watch it your extreme bias is showing. I’d also like to see the tape as the key to the truth, however just because a news crew was shot, does not mean it was targetted intentionally to keep camera crews out.

So far in every thread I’ve seen you post in you’ve been pretty anti-Israel throughout.

If you want people to actually care about what you have to say you’re going to have to recognize two things.

  1. Sharon is not a dictator who has carte blanche, for better or worse he pretty much has his country’s support in this.

  2. Sharon is not some evil madman that wants to just annihilate Palestinians. His restraint has gotten him in more trouble with his own people than has his lack of it. And the corrolary is that the Israeli people are not madmen that want to annihilate Palestinians, they are a scared people who have taken heavy civilian casualties because the people who are in power will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to stop the terrorists, so they are doing what they can.

WBAI is an NPR station. NPR has never reported anything without extreme bias as far back as I’ve seen therefore I would take everything they say with a grain of salt.

War journalists get killed. It happens. It’s part of that “collateral damage” thing we’ve talked so much about.

Erek

Replace Israeli people with Palestinian people and you have the other side also.

I’m not going to say anything about whether the shooting was justified or not, but I just want to correct one thing - they weren’t observers, they were protesters who were approaching an Israeli army position.

this article says it was a peaceful protest and they were backing away though.

Who’s right and who’s wrong here? I don’t know. It’s an incredibly tense situation, and the fact is, it wouldn’t be a big deal if the people who got shot were Palestinian or Israeli, it’s news because they were foreigners.

If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

Efrem, yes, but his jingoistic thread was not about the Palestinian people.

However if you want me to replace Sharon with Arafat I’ll have to decline.

I think the world will be a better place when Arafat is dead. I just hope the IDF doesn’t pull the trigger. Maybe we’ll get lucky and he’ll choke on his dinner or something. He is in his 70s right? Maybe he’ll just die.

Erek

Here’s another report on the episode. Whether they know it or not, these people were trying to help the Palistinian terrorists. Note that they didn’t station themselves at an Israeli restaurant or checkpoint (where an Israeli guard was killed today by a car-bomber. Fortunately his action saved the lives of many others.)

Imagine how these demonstrators would have fared if they had surrounded some al Qaeda caves while the US was attacking with Daisy Cutters.

From the cited article

Of course this group knew that the town was closed to them. They continued advancing even after the personnel carrier had indicated that they should go back. When they disobeyed the order, the Israelis fired in front of them, not at them.

The most telling comment was was a quote from one of these meddlers:

To these activists, it’s a game. They didn’t expect to be at personal, even though a war was going on all around them.

What a bunch jerks!

Arafat may not be the best man for the job, but if he died tomorrow I don’t think things would be better.

Anyways thats another thread.

Where in the article does it say they were defending terrorists?

Yeah December, I didn’t get that either. However I do think the statement about the rubber bullets is rather telling as well.

Erek

One thing needs to be kept in mind when considering the actions of the soldiers: A standard mode of attack for Palestinians is to strap explosive belts to their bodies and then approach soldiers exactly like these people did.

If you walk into a battle zone, and start to approach a military vehicle, and don’t stop when commanded, then you shouldn’t be surprised if you are met with gunfire.

Incidentally, the international ‘peace activists’ that marched their way into Arafat’s headquarters yesterday tried to smuggle several known terrorists out of the building in their midst.

You know, most people consider waving a white flag and then using the leeway granted to carry out a military mission to be despicable. And I believe it is a violation of the Geneva Conventions.

But this is the dilemma Israeli soldiers face. There is no way to know who a ‘civilian’ is, when EVERYONE in the conflict is dressed as a civilian. The Palestinians are even using Red Crescent ambulances loaded with children as weapons carriers, again in violation of the Geneva Conventions. In such an environment, mistakes are going to be made by the Israelis. Deadly ones. But exactly who is to blame for that?

The violence will stop when the euphemisms ‘terror’ and ‘terrorist’ are replaced by ‘murder’ and ‘mass murderer’.
But the truth rarely makes it to the news.

Ok after reading this article. It is pretty clear that they weren’t “journalists” Journalists are impartial or at least try to be. These people were clearly trying to hinder the Israeli mission. In a war that makes them combatants even if they are unarmed and therefore do not really count as “non-combatants” so it wasn’t even collateral damage. Israel fired warning shots at “Combatants” and some of them were hit. They are there from their peaceful homes trying to disrupt an Israeli military action. I guess they should kind of expect to be shot. It’s funny how they don’t realize that the Israelis not mowing them down kind of indicates that they weren’t targetted as enemies.

Erek

Hold on there. According to december’s link it was 100 protestors with two designated negotiators and they were fired upon without warning.

“Two people went ahead after being designated negotiators…As they walked up to the APC, a soldier in the turret just started firing. He fired on the ground immediately in front of the negotiators, injuring one of them. As we retreated down the hill, the APC followed us and kept firing.”

If you say the Israeli army made a mistake and thought they were bombers it’s a strech for 100 of them, but could fly. However these guy were definitly not combatants.

How can the army tell what are combatants, protestors, observers, terrorist? If you want to blow yourself up and take some soldiers with you , you wouldn’t run up saying “death to you all”. you would just try to be as peaceful as possible till you got close enough.
Maybe the non terrorist should wear only underwear (briefs). that would make it interesting for the women protesters.

For that matter, it’s probable that even the other ‘protesters’ wouldn’t know if one of their members was a suicide bomber, so even the assurances of the group are meaningless.

Efrem:

Observer’s carry cameras and get the f*** out of the way. Everyone else is suspect. These people were using a white flag of truce to further an agenda. That’s deplorable and I’m not sorry they got shot. Besides many of them got hit by “shrapnel”, which probably means a sliver of rock cut their arm and they needed stitches.

Look you use your “peaceful” protest to protect people who AREN’T peaceful then you’re gonna get shot simple as that. Western journalists get killed by Arabs with a fair amount of regularity and they aren’t even trying to stop the arabs from killing the other Westerners. But, since Israel did it we are supposed to weep and say “Boo Hoo the evil Israeli boogeyman shot up some poor defenseless westerners that decided to come to a warzone.”, give me a break if you wanted bullets that don’t kill stay in England and play paintball.

Erek

You can’t find out by firing first and asking questions later, but then agian this isn’t really news. The Israeli army are known for “accidently” killing civilains, just this time it was foriegners who got hurt. Maybe the army was spooked? Like I said before, it could fly.