That’s the problem with interracial dating: all the character sets you have to download for your computer.
Imagine all the cultural elements that could strengthen and enliven their relationship. Does it have to be a clash?
Maybe deep down the couple’s spiritual views (regardless of their religion) wouldn’t be that far apart.
You don’t. Or you do if the families want to. If it’s something that has to be done or else the world’s going to end pick something neutral like the 4th of July or Thanksgiving. Why even be concerned about such a thing?
Hey 0rbytal, is your friend still all wrinkly from the time capsule he stepped out of?
Interracial relationships are a good thing.
I think that many of the best points have already been brought up but I would just like to add…
These sort of relationships help to challenge our ideas about race and culture, they allow culture to mix in new and interesting ways.
There will be no death of diversity; it’s not like we started from a set amount of diversity and are slowly counting down. Cultures and races have ebbed and flowed throughout history, constantly reinventing themselves in new and different ways.
Integration prevents cultural stagnation.
The idea that interracial dating diminishes diversity is nonsense. Diversity is a measure of the number of alleles in a population. Mating never decreases the number of alleles around – natural selection and genetic drift do (which I don’t have much time to explain now as I am going to the Lord of the Rings in a bit).
It is true that skin tones may homogenize over the long haul – skin tone is a multigenic trait and it is blendable. But this doesn’t mean that there still won’t be extremes, just fewer extremely pale and fewer extremely dark people.
People think of decreasing biodiversity all of the time when it comes to things like agriculture. Somebody makes one new better strain of corn and that one strain of corn displaces 95% of the old corn out there. This is basically extreme natural selection. If a plague comes along that takes out the new strain, then the world gets screwed as 95% of the corn dies.
This is not happens with interracial mating. Mating people of different populations together only increases diversity in the offspring, because rare or population specific alleles have more chances to be put into new environments and combined with other rare and population specific alleles. Widening the gene pool only serves to increase the chances we give our offspring of favorable mutations, and reduces the chances of homozygosis of detrimental rare and population specific alleles, thus leading to genetic disease. An example is Tay-Sachs in Ashkenazim. If 1/25 Ashkenazim are Tay-Sachs carriers but only 1/500 others are Tay-Sachs carriers (if two carriers mate, 1/4 of their children will have Tay-Sachs), it is obvious that for an Ashkenazi, marriage outside of a population is advantageous when it comes to having non-Tay-Sachs children.
Oh, and I’m not a PhD yet. Get back to me in a year, it may change…
Beeblebrox wrote:
Famous interacial people: Tiger Woods, Lenny Kravitz, Halle Berry, and Bob Marley
I’d much rather my offspring resemble one of these people than a famously single race celebrity like, say, Prince Charles .
Slight problem here, the first thing is Prince Charles is not single race, he comes from Greek, German and Anglo Saxon stock. The second thing is if he was your offspring , you wouldnt feel that way.
I take the average reasonable moderate road of “date who you want, whether they’re your race or not or your gender or not or whatever”, so long as they’re of age and reasonable. I’m far more likely to do a doubletake when I see two an intergenerational couple (e.g. 70 year old husband, 30 year old wife) than when I see an interracial.
I have read interesting studies on the issues of feature familiarity and interracial dating. Though considered racist by some people, the data suggest that women who had terrible relationships with their fathers or other male authority figures in their childhood are usually much more likely to date outside their race than women who had happy childhoods, though the flipside (i.e. that women who dated outside their own race generally had bad relationships with their father) wasn’t true. With men there seemed to be almost no connection- it was simply preference. *
Slight hijack, but I’m interesting in opinions on this: A friend and I were recently discussing male celebrities we find attractive. She mentioned Wesley Snipes in BLADE, to which I responded “I can certainly see why others would find him attractive, but personally I don’t really like muscle-bound guys and I’m not that attracted to black men.” (I’m white, btw.)
She wasn’t offended by my saying that I don’t like guys with big muscles, but she acted as if I’d just used the ‘n’ word when I said I’m not generally attracted to black men. So help me I meant nothing racist by the comment, and I don’t feel any superiority to or lack of connection with people due to racial differences, but generally speaking I just happen to find white and Hispanic men more visually appealing than I do black guys, just as I generally prefer classical music to Top 40 and prefer pork chops to hamburger.
My questions (which I’ll move to another thread if the OPer or moderator would rather me do so): Do you think it’s a sign of racism to not be attracted to somebody because of their race? Also, do you think that which race we’re most attracted to is more a cultural thing or a hard-drive thing?
*Did anybody see the recent Thomas Jefferson/Sally Hemmings sketch on SNL in which Robert DeNiro was TJ while his Monticello courtiers whispered behind his back “oh, don’t you know, Tom always goes for black women instead of white”; I wonder how many got the in-joke: almost all of DeNiro’s significant others for the past 30 years have been black.
I refuse, absolutely REFUSE, to let reason and logic get in the way of me making fun of the British Monarchy :).
US born, white mongrel here. Married for almost 18 years to a Thai Buddhist. It’s been good so far and I expect it to stay that way. Even after 17 years, we still bump into cultural differences that startle both of us. It keeps things interesting. Our daughter speaks both languages fluently and could pass for just about any race she prefers. I’d recommend this to just about anyone.
Regards.
Testy
I find that oftentimes interracial pairings in the U.S. are built on foundations of stereotypes to begin with. For example Black men are viewed as hypersexual, physically appealing, and media “cool” so white women chase them as novelty boyfriends. On the flip side Hispanic men and women are considered trendy because of people like Jennifer Lopez, Enrique Eglesias, and Ricky Martin hype so they have their own little niche in this society.
However, I find with asians that the interracial pairing is kind of disturbing and shows how relationships can often be motivated by stereotypes. Asian women date outside their race more than asian men. Asian women almost unilaterally have gained more mainstream American “acceptance” because they are viewed as hyper feminine, sexy, and submissive. The media roles Asian women take in this society also facilitate this image making them highly desirable to most American men. On the other hand, Asian men are viewed as “foreign” or classical racist stereotypes are still attached. I think it’s getting better for asian men because of hollywood and other breakout roles but it’s a slow process.
To be honest America still has a long way before it’s truly “integrationist.” There’s too much bullshit when it comes to race politics and media stereotyping that hinders real world perceptions. I find that many European countries are more “integrationist” than even America. As an asian male travelling and staying in Europe for a period of time was much more relaxing. The stereotypes weren’t as antiquated or racist since most Europeans make an effort to learn about the world.
I’m less than enthralled with the implication that I married my wife due to a stereotype fed me by Hollywood.
“Hyper-feminine?” What the hell does that mean? Prissy? Squeamish? What? My wife comes from a rural background in northern Thailand and is no more squeamish than any other farm girl.
Submissive? Why the assumption that myself, or any typical American guy, needs a “submissive” wife? In any event, someone desiring a “submissive” wife should look elsewhere. While she is physically diminutive, my wife is an assertive woman who would put up with bullying or dominance games just long enough to pack her clothes. She isn’t shrill about things, just a good partner.
As far as the “sexy” part goes, ya got me with that one. She’s the sexiest thing on two legs.
Despite my disagreement with you on the “Hollywood” part, I do agree that Asian females are seen as good wives. I believe that part of the reason would be them being more “traditional” than is common in Western society. My own wife enjoys caring for our home and family and considers that her primary duty. A side effect of this is that she spoils me rotten, something I shamelessly revel in. S
Regards.
Testy
No doubt some fetish-obsessed fools are attracted to the “other” because of stereotypes, but I don’t think this happens enough to explain most long-lasting interracial relationships.
Testy,
You should really try to remember there’s a difference between pointing out a stereotype and asserting that all men who marry asian women are racists.
Are you denying that Asian women are portrayed as submissive by the media?
I don’t know about Testy, but I’ll deny that. Three of the most prominent Asian women figures in the American Media in the past five years have been Lisa Leiu (sp?) as Ling on Ally McBeal, Connie Chung, and Hank Hill’s Cambodian next door neighbor. Submissive? Hah! The American media does NOT portray Asian women as giggling Japanese school girls.
I say - We’re all people! The world will be a much better place if everyone could understand that. So what if I’m white and you’re black? We’re all people, we live on the same earth and breathe the same air.
Beetlebrox - Lucy Liu, I think.
I see nothing wrong whatsoever with interracial relationships. I think relationships between people of different religious groups can be a lot harder. Eg here: if a woman has a relationship and children with a local Muslim man, the kids are his regardless if they split up, the only way she could get custody/access (if he wasn’t cooperative) would be by snatching them, as happens with tragic frequency here.
I don’t think it’s so much about colour/race per se, as about being with someone from a very different social/cultural/religious background. There’s nothing wrong with it, but it will always have its obstacles - and its rewards.
I don’t know how much stock we want to put American media portrayals. After all, two of the most prominent white American guys (sorry, I don’t know what the more correct term is) in the American media in the past few years have been Homer Simpson and Bill Clinton.
But then again, we don’t think of them foremost as white American guys either.
Gee, I wonder where I got the idea that Asian societies were still incredibly sexist where women were expected to be seen and not heard, only work till they got married, la, la, la.
Since the media doesn’t portray them that way, it must have been beamed into my head by aliens.
Well, i’m less than enthralled with your over defensive knee-jerk reaction to my observation. As someone that’s grown up in the U.S. as a person of color (asian american male) i’ve seen these things up close and personal. I doubt any white person would truly understand the stereotyping and implications race relations has on gender equality within racial boundaries.
From my experiences, the American media has gone to great lengths to portray asian women as sexual wallflowers out to be exploited by white american males. Look at the evidence before you speak. Look at all the racially denigrating asian porn with racist titles available in the U.S. Almost all of it has some kind of racial angle to it. Look at the different movies that portray asian women as nothing else but scrap heap proxy white women. Even the characters played by Lucy Liu et al are usually nothing but exotic stand ins for white women.
**
If my pointing out of oft held asian stereotypes bothers you then perhaps you shouldn’t read my posts? Once again, from the media asian women often are portrayed as stereotypically submissive. Your wife may differ but the evidence out there points that there’s a certain preconceived notion about asian women which makes them so “popular” in the fetish category.
What’s ironic about your statement above is you spend most of your post venting about my pointing out of commonly held stereotypes then on the flip side you go right ahead and validate my observations by stating that asian women are more “traditional.” By traditional perhaps you mean they obey your command and are submissive like a good little 19th century wife?
This is exactly what i’m talking about. The stereotype that asian women are “lesser” or “traditional” or “tamed.” This often held viewpoint that asian women are less progressive in society and just sit around waiting all day for a man to liberate them. To be honest, unless you got a mail order bride (which it sounds like you did) most asian-american women are nowhere as “traditional” as you claim.
I have to also point out that this heavy racial stereotyping of asians seems to be a commonly held AMERICAN phenomenon. Like I said before I spent a great deal of time in western europe (and some time in eastern) and the asian stereotyping was far less. My theory on this is there’s still a lot of latent animosity towards asians (especially asian males) in american society due to the many wars America has fought with asian nations.
Let’s take a look at the current crop of asian-american female actresses shall we?
Connie Chung: Reporter talking head who emphasizes her “american” qualities. She refuses to have anything to do with anyone from the asian-american community. She has repeatedly denied she’s an asian person. She’s married to a jewish-american male Maury Povich. She’s essentially an acceptable asian archetype to the white mainstream because she’s non threatening and known as “that reporter woman.” I’ve noticed that one of the many “acceptable” careers asians can have in the white American mainstream is reporter, kung fu master, chef, or liquor store owner.
Lucy Liu: Played a highly stereotyped sexual wallflower on Ally Mcbeal. When she’s not taking roles like that she’s in movies like Charlie’s angels trying to be a white woman. She’s also known for her dragonlady roles. All in all she does nothing for asians except exacerbate known stereotyping.
Lisa Ling: She was one of the reporters (notice a trend here?) on The View. She was in a series of commercials by Old Navy that had her flauting herself as …drum roll a sexual wallflower! To her credit she is dating actor Rick Yune so she hasn’t completely sold out yet.