THIS is the most excellent point I have read today. Is this not social interaction? Is this not a remedy for being alone?
I can get on board with the Ninja’s dislike for being labeled. In my early 20s I was “diagnosed” with Schizoid personality disorder due to my isolation and preference for not being intruded upon (phones ringing, someone knocking on the door etc.) In essence such a label can dictate the course of your life if you run with it.
If you are still in school, you probably haven’t had a chance to really test out these two criteria:
You may (or may not) find that you need to interact with people more/differently to be fully self-sufficient as an adult. Alternatively, it might not reach the point of impairment, but it’s also possible you might find you need to interact with people more/differently to reach your full potential in other areas. For example, it might make the difference between making a living as a cook and building a career as a chef.
WhyNot, I think you may be overstating the case about who can diagnose. Not every counselor can diagnose, because counselor is a really broad, vague term. So broad it could range from feng-shui to a Ph.D. in clinical psychology. But mental health professionals typically involve MDs at the point where medication is prescribed, not to make a diagnosis. The OP doesn’t give any details about this person’s credentials. I suspect the insurance company wouldn’t pay out if the diagnosis came from someone not legally qualified to make it.
Well that’s not entirely accurate. LCSW’s can and do diagnose often - without the intervention of a psychiatrist or psychologist. It’s what they do. If you don’t like the term counselor, then use therapist, or shrink, or Bob…but counselor fits just fine, and they do in fact diagnose (with a license). And with that license comes third party reimbursement.
I think the OP is looking for someone to validate her isolative behavior. I think as she get’s a little older and perhaps a little stronger, seeking that validation won’t be necessary. I still stand by my original post up thread.
If the person chooses to define it as such and wishes that their head worked differently, yes. But such definition is up to that person. That person may choose to define “it” as an improvement over the heads as they exist atop the shoulders of other people. That person may choose to define “it” as “that’s me, it’s who I am”. That person may choose not to define or think much about “it” at all, for that matter.
I see you’re at least a bit concerned, along the lines of “gee is something wrong with me?”.
I also see you’re at least a bit concerned along the lines of “I am not particularly miserable now but I see some warning signs, the drinking for example, that might be red flags that I am gonna end up miserable in the future”.
Do I read that correctly?
OK, as is no secret on this board, I’ve personally found psychiatric “help” to lie in a spectrum between “well-intentioned buffoons dangerous at close range” and “deplorably sadistic people bent on either breaking your spirit or just plain breaking you altogether, because they get off on it personally” and none of it better than “no help at all”.
I’ve said the psychiatric profession’s level of expertise is only marginally out of the “stone knives and bearskins” bracket, and have at times elaborated on that at great and pontificating length.
Other folks on this board have had good outcomes from psychiatric treatment, ranging from “eventually I found a shrink who did me more good than harm and it’s been worthwhile overall” to “saved me life, I’d be a corpse right now if I had not gone in for treatment”.
My recommendation is to explore what sets you apart, explore it philosophically and politically, and stay away from psychiatrists insofar as you don’t seem inclined to off yourself any time soon. You can always revisit the option later but I’d look at everything else first, including both “nothing wrong with me at all” options and “something wrong with me but not best approached by that kind of treatment” options.
If you decide otherwise, my second auxiliary recommendation is to fully familiarize yourself with all the pragmatics concerning the psychiatric system. Know your rights, know how things are done, read up on medications and results and alternatives and so on.
Best of wishes, and as one psychiatrically labeled weird misfit person to another similarly self-identified, yours in struggle.
Things to clarify (and I apologize for not making them more clear at first):
The counselor was a ‘licensed clinical social worker’. I got in the habit of referring to her as a counselor, because her full title is a bit wordy. I know that she is not a doctor, but I was under the impression that LCSWs are certified to make ‘official’ diagnoses. All I know for certain is that I saw her regularly, my parent’s insurance paid part of the fees, and she filled out an insurance form with an official DSM diagnosis on it.
Well, if an MD did blood tests that showed I have irregular hormone levels, I’d believe that, and if reputable sources backed up the statement that they were causing me to behave this way, sure.
With the psychologist I saw my primary problem was that he diagnosed me with three different conditions in the space of one forty-five minute meeting. My parents had told him they thought I had ADD, and he managed to pull the other two things out of the air in a very small amount of time. That just makes me dubious. Additionally - and I didn’t mention this before, because I think it might be petty - I really didn’t like his attitude. When I told him that I disagreed with his conclusions about the social anxiety and depression, he didn’t really listen. What he said, and I remember this vividly, was that “We might as well try to correct it anyway.” I protested that I personally didn’t feel there was anything to correct: I was perfectly satisfied the way I was. He didn’t listen, which made me seriously doubt his integrity.
Excellent point, and to answer your question: damned if I know.
My parents were always concerned that I was replacing ‘real’ social interaction with online interaction. I think, for starters, that online social interaction is in some settings (here, yes; in AOL chatrooms maybe not) just as real as face-to-face stuff. The primary difference for me is that I enjoy this more. I do admit that I can get anxious in social settings. Online communication lets me avoid that. There’s more time to think before needing to respond, there’s less pressure to respond, plus I don’t need to actually speak. I guess it’s not so much that I don’t like people as much as I don’t really like being with them (if that makes any sense).
Alcohol. I don’t drink to change my emotional state/drown it out/anything like that (okay, I did that once, when I was 18, and have not ever again). I drink, as I said, because I enjoy the taste, and I like that slightly light-headed feeling I get from one drink (I’m a complete lightweight). If I came across as defensive about it, it’s because I really don’t like being accused of being an alcoholic simply because I drink alone. The only times I’ve ever had more than one drink in a sitting where when I was out in a group. The only times I’ve ever drank too much were when I was with other people, and I’ve certainly done that far less than many people my age. I just bristle when people decide that if I were to go hang out with a friend and have a beer, it’s perfectly acceptable, but I hang out alone and have a beer, I have a problem.
Well, I have a little bit, actually. I took a year off midway through my sophomore year, and for most of that time lived totally independently from my parents (in a foreign country, even). As far as I can tell I didn’t have any major problems. I did briefly need to borrow money for rent from my parents, but that was because of poor planning on my part, combined with the pay schedule at work and ATM withdrawal limits.
I guess that brings up another point I should have made clearer: I can interact with people just fine. I won’t deny being slightly awkward, but I certainly can (and do) get along fine. I eat in the college cafeteria with friends, I get on just fine with my coworkers, and I’ve worked public-facing customer service jobs just fine before (fast food and a movie theater). I’ve also had job interviews that have gotten me jobs I want, and while yes I’ve freaked out over them, I’ve gotten the job. It’s really not that I can’t do it, it’s that I’m not terribly comfortable and prefer not to.
This could well be the case. I’m certainly not a confident person (which I’m sure is not a surprise), and honestly I’m not quite sure what I expected from this thread*. I do appreciate the dialogue on it, though: one of my problems with the ‘treatment’ I’ve had in the past was that it never felt quite like a dialogue between two people and more just a ‘This is what’s wrong with you and this is how we’re going to fix it, regardless of what you think’.
*Okay, I was partly hoping that someone would at least agree with me that three or four drinks per week does not indicate a drinking problem, and it’s insane to suggest so. I found out this morning that apparently the girl who said that also believes that marijuana is as addictive as heroin, so…I’m not taking her particularly seriously.
I read somewhere that Freud said, effectively, that mental health is the ability to work, love, and play effectively.
To illustrate, consider a homosexual. Maybe the person feels guilty or “wrong” or something, so that’s mentally “ill.” But maybe the person is perfectly okay with it, enjoys the lifestyle, etc. That’s mentally “healthy.”
You seem to be okay with spending time alone, you’re doing well in school, and you have alcohol as a friend instead of a master.
The question was raised about spending time on a message board but being withdrawn socially…I don’t see these as incompatible. I bet many dopers are like this: the face-to-face can be intimidating, but this provides an outlet for discussion.
In general, I’d say don’t let the personal wishes of others infringe on who you want to be or living within parameters you find comfortable UNLESS there is something YOU feel is missing from your life.
NinjaChick, are you me? You sound a lot like me, right down to the fact of an association of some kind with the word “ninja.” Ah, wait. You said peppermint? Okay, so you are somebody else. (Long lost sister, perhaps?)
Here’s my totally unprofessional, uneducated opinion: From what I have seen on this message board, you do not appear to have any kind of problem. Now before the elite few pounce down my throat, allow me to qualify that statement. It’s entirely possible that you do have some type of mental illness or disorder or what have you. Hell, it’s possible that you are the craziest on on this board! (Though I doubt it very much.) That said, I don’t think you have a problem of any kind. As others have said, there’s nothing wrong with wanting to be alone. You are pretty social here on the Dope, and as long as your preference to not interact “normally” with people in real life (whatever the hell that means) isn’t detracting from your life in any way, then it’s nothing to worry about. Your bills are paid, your grades are good, and you don’t cry yourself to sleep? Then I’d say whatever your diagnosis is, it’s not affecting you adversely.
As for your drinking, I don’t see any problems with it. Like I said, as long as you are taking care of yourself, and not driving after drinking or aything like that, a few beers here and there won’t hurt. No offense meant to the Dopers who posted concerns about alcoholism, but taking you at your word on the amount of alcohol you consume, and the circumstances under which you consume it (and I have no reason not to believe you) I think you’re pretty safe.
Having said all that, I do think that if you notice that your personal life is starting to suffer - other than this one “friend” who’s on a mission to save you from yourself - if you miss school just because you don’t want to be around people, or if you start feeling really down all the time, then you should seek out a doctor.
I’m not a doctor or anybody even remotely qualified to being able to provide any kind of diagnosis. I spent three years in the mental health field, and I suffer from undiagnosed issues myself. The above statements are just my opinion, and not intended to replace or supplement any treatment by a professional. Prices and participation may vary. Void where prohibited.
I’ve had bad experiences with mental health professionals myself (one of my teachers made my parents take me. I believe the exact diagnosis was ‘overactive imagination’). I have/had mental problems. IANA doctor, nor do I pretend to be one on TV.
I have problems dealing with social situations. I’m severely introverted. I spend most of my time alone. Part of it was a brain problem, which was dealt with through a prescription. But mostly, I just don’t like interacting with people all the time. I find it tiring.
IF you feel like you have problems, go find some one to talk to. Most colleges either have a shrink or can recommend one. If you don’t feel like you do, well you sound more or less fine to me. I know a lot of people who don’t interact well with people. I do know, it gets easier with practice. Probably the older you get the more ‘normal’ you’ll seem.
(And a few drinks a week for the taste makes you an alcoholic? Ooookay. :rolleyes: )
DING…DING…DING…Someone please give NinjaChick her prize worth meellions of dollars! 
I get the impression you have had your LCSW’s chosen for you in the past - and the man you saw initially sounds like a tool. That being said, as an adult, many of us shop around and find someone we can talk to - NOT, I REPEAT, NOT someone to talk at us.
I am a psychologist but not of the clinical variety, as a matter of fact I never wanted to be a clinical anything - but I was consumed with questions about human behavior - so I became a environmental Psychologist, what some call eco-psychologists now. I work with people and their surroundings i.e. environment - no I don’t counsel trees or shrubs!
Ok, NinjaChick as you may be able to tell I can stray off topic, I do have ADD, diagnosed. I do however agree with the diagnosis, I’ve been living with it for 20 years…
But back to shoping around for someone good - there are many, many good therapists, counselors, LCSW’s, Susan’s whatever out there who are good at what they do and will talk with you and not at you.
If you wish, find one on your own and have a chat. Nothing crazy, just talk…I went to a shrink once before he was an asshole and you are already starting at subzero, so I want to find someone who I can trust and talk to…can you help me?
That might be a good start. It’s terribly unfortunate that there are therapists out there who are jerks, but there are jerks in every industry under the sun. It’s a fact of life. You sound very well rounded in terms of understanding what is going on in your own mind. The drinking may or may not be an issue, some of us older folk know that a drink every once in a while whilst alone can change over time to become a problem. But only you will know if it becomes a problem. You have a good head on your shoulders and sound like a very interesting young woman! Keep and even keel and be aware of your emotions and for heavens sake don’t stay going to someone who is a jerk - interview potential counselors…it’s your right!
This is pretty much what I was going to post. The desire to be alone ALL the time is not normal and, imh (and not qualified) opinion, not healthy. Friends are important both on a social level, because humans are normally social creatures, and also on a practical level, because you need someone who you can help and who can help you back, should you need help. It’s generally not good to be alone in the world. The “friend” you mentioned may not have actually been helpful, but she was trying to be, and that’s worth considering.
Also, you mentioned experiencing anxiety in social settings, but then you said you rejected the diagnosis of social anxiety. If the reason that you feel uncomfortable around other people whenever you hang out with them is due to anxiety or the feeling that people are going to judge you, that’s something that you should deal with, because dealing with it will make you a happier person. As you said yourself, being around people is necessary and you don’t totally avoid it anyway, so you might as well enjoy it, right? Maybe you can deal with it through self-reflection, or maybe you need a therapist who you trust to help you deal with it - how you deal with it is up to you.
Don’t confuse introversion with social anxiety, either. They can coexist.
There’s nothing wrong with being more comfortable alone, being thoughtful and “deep”, and needing to recharge after spending too much time around people. About one in three people fall into this category. It’s a normal personality type, and it can’t be changed. you should never have to feel like you need to “correct” the introverted part of your personality, I don’t care what anybody says. You have every right to be this way.
Being too nervous around people to say what you need to say is a problem though, and you should be open to the idea of accepting some therapy to help you cope with the anxiety and become more confident when you need to speak to others. You may not be anxious enough to deserve the mental illness label, but shyness sucks, it can be helped, and your quality of life can be improved.
Probably not anyone on this forum’s favorite thing to hear, but you sound a lot like me, especially about twenty years ago.
I’ve always been someone that likes people, but I hate when people are around, most of the time. I’m the sort of person who is happy to be alone about 90% of the time, and nothing aggravates me more than when I’m “stuck” with a person, especially someone in “my personal space.”
It’s amazing I had an entire career in the Army with that sort of attitude, because the military isn’t conducive to personal space. When I first retired, I would sometimes go weeks without having any real interactions with people (aside from pleasantries with retail clerks and such), maybe a few phone calls with family. I loved it.
I’ve never viewed myself as being antisocial, I simply think everyone needs a certain amount of social interaction. Some people need nigh-constant social interaction, I fall on the other end of that spectrum. I recognize that homo sapiens are a social species, and that to completely despise any human contact is abnormal. But I’m not like that, I just prefer significantly less human interaction than most people I know.
It has never caused me anything I have viewed as significant problems in my life. I’m on the downslope of life now, but I think I’ve had a pretty good life. I’ve had good friends, good experiences.
As for drinking, I drink very often. I have for years, I’ve wrestled with the big question of whether or not I’m an alcoholic. I finally decided that to me, the two key definitions of alcoholism were: 1. Continuing to drink when drinking causes you problems and 2. Inability to control how much you drink when you do drink.
I drink very regularly, I like the relaxing feel of a light buzz. It is rare I get “drunk” when I do, it is a deliberate decision to drink to excess (never a wise decision, but it’s always been a decision I’ve willfully made.)
Since alcohol hasn’t caused me any problems, and I don’t fall into binges uncontrollably, I feel I’m not an alcoholic.
The closest to having a problem with alcohol came over twenty years ago, and involved me drinking and driving. However, I was not over the legal limit (in my opinion), based on the science behind BAC and the number of drinks I had, I was safely below .10. (Even below today’s standard of .08.) I was exonerated of any charges against me, to this day I feel I had the unfortunate luck of having car trouble with a car full of people who were totally plastered. But, to be safe, I haven’t driven with even a drop of alcohol in me since then, because it’s just not worth the risk to me.
I will say that peppermint schnapps, at least the type that I buy, is stronger than most of the whiskeys in my liquor cabinet. So any drink involving peppermint schnapps isn’t necessarily “weak.”
First of all, I’m pretty sure they generally pay for the visit, not the diagnosis. And second of all, I’d like to know what your health insurance has to do with employment.
My answer is a firm and committed:
it could be.
Straight off, three or four drinks a week is not a problem; you are not ‘drinking alone’, you are ‘having a beer’. However, never, ever, ever argue about whether or not you are an alcoholic: you just get dirty and the pig likes it. [Your ‘friend’ has a far more serious social and emotional problem that you do.]
As for preferring to be alone: I call that ‘sane’.*
People are demanding and annoying; they constantly interrupt one, demand notice, and require one to modify one’s behavior to their needs and expectations. Now I am all in favor of people being properly socialized, but a properly socialized person needs a little ‘down time’ to drink a beer and read a good book. Alone. In the quiet. (If you ever meet a man** that can spend a Saturday afternoon reading a book in the same room with you, marry him immediately.)
I worry about people who don’t cherish their ‘alone time’; why can’t they entertain themselves? Oh, they are, by interrupting some else’s reading by telling them ‘what their problem is’?
As for your first therapist:
Brace yourself.
He was probably right. Sshhh. Just listen.
How could he diagnose you after 45 minute?
But I am concerned, because you dismiss displaying the capacity for socially acceptable behavior as ‘acting’, as if that were a bad thing. It is acting, but that is a good thing. Behaving in accordance with social norms is good***; internalizing social norms to the point where you can not acknowledge any aberrant impulse is the dangerous thing.
So, for every solitary beer, I prescribe one hour of group interaction with good natured & less intelligent people; that will further hone your socialization.
One more thought: Are you female? Females often face higher social and lower intellectual expectations.
** insert preferred gender
*** rebuttal references to Nazis or other terrorists will be ignored
msmith537, I really don’t think you know much about how most insurance companies, and the Federal gov’t deals with mental illness. I have never, ever, seen (as an adult) a therapist where the first order of business was something other than to work out a preliminary diagnosis. Because without the diagnosis code, general mental illness visits are not covered by most health plans. It has to be a code from the DSM IV, and it has to be something that the therapist could defend in case of an audit. The therapist is allowed, in the future, to change the diagnosis to something related to the original diagnosis, but not too far.
Mental health is not treated the same way by health insurance providers as any other chronic condition.
Secondly, it’s not the health insurance that’s got anything to do with future employment, it’s the diagnosis. The vast majority of the public views any mental health diagnosis as a sign that the person with that diagnosis just one bad hair day from going Columbine. It doesn’t matter that it’s illegal. It doesn’t matter that it’s based on inaccurate understandings. It’s a fact.
Just for an example: It’s illegal for an interviewer to ask, “So, you say here you had to leave your last job for medical reasons. What was your condition?” That doesn’t keep people from asking. And not everyone applying for a job knows their rights vis-a-vis the ADA. So they answer.
ETA: After all, they know that there’s no stigma associated with being an insulin dependent diabetic, not for office work. So, why should having had a few sessions of counseling a few years ago matter?
If you submit a claim to an insurance company, there must be a diagnosis code filled in, or it will be denied. My experience as a desk jockey at an alt medicine center speaking there. Since acupuncturists and massage therapists can not legally diagnose in my state, we had to get a diagnosis from an MD or Chiropractor for those patients who wanted to send their receipt to their insurance company. As is the case with many alt medicine practitioners, we had a working relationship with a Chiropractor for just this reason.
I think you misread my statement about health insurance and employment. My point was that one can be denied health insurance with a diagnosis of depression on file, AND one can (perhaps illegally, I’m not sure) be denied employment if the employer somehow finds out you had a diagnosis of depression. Not that the health insurance has anything to do with employment.
My husband was denied private coverage health insurance after being diagnosed with depression. We were told to reapply in 10 years. So that’s the source of the health insurance comment.
As for employment, here is one case of a man denied employment because of a diagnosis of depression.
I’m not a psych major but I have been a psych patient. From my experience the answers are pretty simple to get, but not so easy to accept.
For example, if you wonder if you may or may not be a “problem drinker” if not a full blown alcoholic then - you are.
If you wonder if you may or may not be depressed - you are.
If you think there may be a problem with the way you are - there is.
Be very careful though with the strawmen you build with this. Remember, we are talking about psychology, not general medicine. It does not follow that if you think you are diabetic then you are, or if you think you have cancer you do. This only applies to a state of mind.
Sometimes this state is biological or genetic.
Sometimes this state is situational.
Sometimes this state is self induced.
But the particular state of mind in and of itself is simply that, a state of mind. Sometimes it’s temporary, sometimes it’s permanant. Sometimes it can be helped with meds, sometimes not.
The bottom line is - yes, sure it’s mental illness. So? Is it hurting you? Is it hurting someone else? (here’s the hard one, a real wrench in the works for those in denial) Is it something that may lead to a destructive path either for yourself or others? Ah-Ha. You see, even if you are not hurting anyone (yourself or others) you may be starting down a road that leads to that end.
In my case I became so accustomed to the depression and so used to stuffing pain deep inside of me that I didn’t even realize I was doing it any more. I was mentally self medicating and rationalizing everything else away as SEP. Eventually I found myself failing to deal with a situation that affected those around me who I loved and cared for. This came to a head last year with a major mental breakdown, a violent outburst, time spent in a mental hospital, time spent in a jail cell, time spent with five different councelors of different qualifications and different specialties / approaches and a lot of money dropped on all of this. I’d love to join you in a nice, cold, hoppy and overly malty microbrew but I still have thirteen months before I can. The lost trust in myself, the lost trust from my friends and family and co-workers, the loss of reputation within society (and a society that I never really cared one way or another what they thought of me, until what they thought was irreputably bad) can never be replaced no matter how much money I spend.
So yeah, you may not be hurting yourself. You may not be hurting any body else. But as I said before, if you wonder if it is a problem - then it is. And it could become a problem that you will regret.
Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon… and for the rest of your life.
So keep looking for someone, at some level in mental health, that you feel comfortable chatting with.
Or not, I did mention I’m batshit crazy didn’t I?
Woot… woot…
This is no more true of mental health than it is of physical health. Why on earth should merely “wondering” about one’s mental state be proof of mental illness?
If you’d said, “If you find yourself consumed, or at least frequently visited, by concerns that you may be depressed/mentally ill/alcoholic, then you do indeed have a problem,” I’d be inclined to agree with you.
Bullshit.
I often stop to think, “hmm, am I displaying even the teensiest alcoholic tendencies?” because my father drinks like a fish. He doesn’t ever show impairment, doesn’t consider himself an alcoholic and has led a deeply functional life - but it’s not uncommon for the man to have 6 drinks a night, with people or alone. The quantity of his drinking alone leads me to watch myself, whether or not he or I are alcoholics. And I am most certainly, not even by Temperance standards, an alcoholic. I’d say more on that, but the more one explains, the more one looks guilty. It’s really not a conversation you can win.
As I said before - it’s when I wonder if I’m depressed that I’m not. Wonder means I might be a little down. By the time I have a full blown diagnosable depression going on, I’m too bogged down by it to wonder.
If you are part of a dysfunctional relationship, you may spend a lot of time wondering if there’s something wrong with you. At least half the time, you’re just fine, and it’s the other asshole who’s got something wrong. And sometimes people around you are just wrong about what’s normal, and they talk you into self-doubt when you’re just fine.
A little reality check is not a diagnosis. Sometimes a question is just a question.
Clinical psychologist here. WhyNot and OtakuLoki are right about diagnosis, insurance, and billing. No diagnosis, no payment. The idea is that treatment must be “medically necessary” which they define as having a diagnosis. What happens when someone shows up, and after an evaluation, I determine they don’t have a mental illness, you ask? The answer, I am afraid, is not pretty. Most psychological types will give a diagnosis anyway, and just pick the mildest one. I worked for two hospitals where that was the unstated policy. What I do in my practice is tell people up front that the first session is an evaluation, that insurance won’t pay if they don’t fit a diagnosis, and that I will tell them at the end of that first session what their diagnosis is and if they don’t fit one, they will have to pay out of pocket and give them my rate for that. Very few people refuse, but some do, and that is their right, of course. And most people who see me do meet criteria for a diagnosis, by the way.
As to the issue of whether we can diagnose in a single session–most of the time I feel very confident of my diagnosis at the end of the session (50 minutes, not 45–somebody is short-changing you). Some diagnoses are tricker (bipolar is a hard one for me, at least), but once you know the symptoms patterns, it honestly isn’t that hard.