Of course. I’m not advocating empty hollering. But if a kid is rolling his eyes and you yell at them to stop, you shouldn’t have to go into a full dissertation about why rolling your eyes is rude.
If I tell Trevor to take the cake and sit his ass down somewhere and stop asking so many questions, I know I haven’t exactly taught him anything explicitly. But if there’s an intelligent human being inside him, he will examine the incident and think about why his question and non-verbal behavior would evoke such a response.
I used to get yelled at somewhat frequently between the ages of 9-12. I remember being yelled at for things I didn’t do. I remembering being yelled at for things that didn’t merit yelling. But never do I remember being confused about why I was being yelled at. I always knew what it was that I had done or what was perceived that I had done. I think most kids in that age range are the same way.
The gentle explanation time is for younger kids (seven and younger.) Once you stop being cute, you don’t get the “he doesn’t know any better” treatment anymore, IMHO.
If you come to my house and I offer you chocolate cake, you may ask “Does this have [insert offending ingredient here] in it?” Not a thing wrong with that.
If you come to my house and I offer you chocolate cake and you say “Yes, I would love some.” Then when the plate is presented to you, procede to look at it like it came from outer space and demand to know what’s in it, that’s rude.
I offered cake, you asked for cake, I give you cake. It’s cake. With frosting. Exactly as advertised.
I wish it had been that easy for me. I am jealous that things which have taken me years of practice came so effortlessly to you and the rest of the general population. I imagine it’s as easy for you as dancing is for some people: a natural ability you can not imagine being without. Many people do not find graceful social interaction so effortless, and “well they’re stupid” is an overly simplistic worldview that does not do you any favors.
I am by no means a shut-in recluse who lives on the internet. I am considered by many to be charismatic, kind, and confident, but it is only the result of patient and kind individuals helping explain, step by step, how I can improve my behavior.
You are right that, if it’s not your kid, you don’t owe them life skills training and “shut the fuck up and eat your cake” is a reasonable consequence for assholish behavior. But it would be nice of you to rise above the minimum expected level of decency.
Plus the fact that we’ve already established that the OP knows the kid well enough to know he doesn’t have any food allergies. There’s no medical reason for him to be asking.
Can you tell us an (some) example(s) of how you didn’t understand a specific social interaction? Is it that you couldn’t hear the tone people used? Did you speak too quickly before you thought about how it would “sound”? I think a lot of people, like myself, just assume that the child isn’t taught by his/her parents.
Did you really feel that you simply lacked those skills period (as in you were tone-deaf to nuances of social behaviour)? Or that you were simply a late-bloomer in learning them?
No, I had to learn just like eveyone else did. Some of us learn faster than others, but no one is born knowing. And it isn’t/hasn’t been easy for me either. I’m a giant weirdo and used to get yelled at for things that I could not help or (more commonly) things that didn’t matter to a whole bunch of anything. But I’m glad that I was corrected when I was wrong, even if it was done harshly, because I learned from my mistakes that way.
We aren’t taking about outliers, though. We are talking about normal, every-day bratty kids who know the rules but just choose not to follow them. Most kids are good most of the time, but almost every kid has a bratty moment some time. Fortunately, most times it’s by accident–like a slip of the tongue, forgetting to say ‘thank you’, being too familiar with someone, etc. But sometimes a kid is a jerk and delights in it because they know they’ll probably get away with it.
I’m happy that you were raised in the way you needed to be raised. Sounds like the kid in the OP has not been raised that way, wouldn’t you agree?
I don’t think “sit down, eat your cake, and stop asking so many questions” is indecdent, mean, harsh, or assholish. Not in response to jerkish behavior, no. Now if Trevor was socially handicapped in some way, obviously I wouldn’t be so curt with him. But I would still say to him, “Trevor, I would like you to rephrase that question to me so that it sounds respectful. Because what you just said did not sound respectful at all.” And I would not give him any cake until he could behave appropriately.
I’m all for kids having rights, but adults should not be guilted into being “nice” to bad-behaving ones just because they’re kids. And I don’t think an adult should wait for a parent to do the disciplining either. But that’s a whole 'nother can of worms.
At 10 yrs. old, it’s ok, IMHO, to ask them if they would like to be treated as a child or as a young man. If they prefer to be a child, then it’s sit down, shut up and eat it. If he would like to be treated as a young man, then it’s OK to engage in the conversation about “why do you ask? Are you allergic? Is there something in particular you don’t like?” Make it their choice.
I don’t think I have ever asked someone, when offering me food, what’s in this? I have no food allergies, so I don’t act so rudely (because I was raised better).
Kids don’t always know how to ask questions, or understand how they sound to others.
You can, gently, rework their bitchy comments.
I was about 6 when I asked some beloved company, “When are you leaving?” My mother laughed and said, “I think she means, how long can you stay?” I remember this well, because I saw what I SHOULD have asked.
I don’t know why the young man we’ve been discussing hasn’t been hauled back by his parental authority, but if he mouthed off to me, I would tell him he was out of line. eg about the snowmobiling: “It’s not considered the done thing to make comments about the equipment when you’ve been out enjoying same. Didn’t you want to thank your uncle for taking you out? If you don’t he might not be so eager to take you again.”
And sure as eggs are eggs the young man would be expected to clear the table / help with the dishes. Because he’s young and because he’s a guest. “I know you don’t like to be thanked <name>, because I don’t hear you thanking others. But I’d like to extend my appreciation for your help in the kitchen.”
I think it’s ok to ask the 10-year-old in question if he wants the piece of cake or not.
Your approach would confuse the hell out of me if I were a kid. And I’m not seeing how it would teach me how to be more respectful when receiving something nice from an adult.
If it was a simple chocolate cake, then no excuse. But if it was a very interesting-looking cake, then the question was rudely posed, but it is understandable for curiosity to win out in a kid who isn’t necessarily a “rude kid” in general.
Sure, we grown ups know to let family try it first and whisper “are there coconuts/white chocolate/etc” and then claim to be full/secretly toss it if there is. But kids are more straightforward.
I don’t think it’s a question of being raised better. If someone offers me a piece of vaguely beige-ish cake, I’m going to ask them what flavor it is. It could be coffee-flavored, for example. If I bite into it and find out it’s coffee-flavored, and end up throwing the rest away because I don’t like coffee, that’s one less piece that could have gone to someone who actually likes coffee. What a waste!
And I’m sure that you, and every other person who claims to be excusing this boy’s behavior, can see the difference between someone asking “what kind of cake is this?” and the pattern of behavior that has been relayed in this thread.
If it was a simple chocolate cake, then no excuse. But if it was a very interesting-looking cake, then the question was rudely posed, but it is understandable for curiosity to win out in a kid who isn’t necessarily a “rude kid” in general.
[QUOTE]
For the record: standard boxed chocolate cake mix with chocolate frosting out of a can.
If I know kids are involved, it is simpler and easier to stick with the tried and true. No weird ingredients or complex flavors necessary.
ETA I guess it is hard to quote properly. Don’t know what I’m doing wrong here.
When I was a teacher, there were definitely kids I liked better than other kids, and some kids i didn’t like at all. Your visceral. emotional responses to a kid are not voluntary, don’t make you a monster and aren’t weird. What does matter is how you treat them, and you still have to treat them with kindness. That doesn’t mean you have to be a doormat for them, but be nice to them and show some basic compassion, regardless. The kids that are the meanest usually have reason for it, and I was surprised more than once, both as a teacher and when I ran inner city after school programs and summer day camps at how responsive some of the most seemingly unreachable, most incorrigable kids could be to receiving a little bit of kindness and encouragement from an adult. Sometimes I felt like I was literally the first adult who had ever said anything nice to them, and they lept on it like oxygen.
Anyway, remember that they’re kids, not little adults.
