Is it REALLY safe to fly?

Great Debates
1

Mods: I’m sorry if this is in the wrong forum. I thought it might turn into a debate about the current level of safety, so I put it here. I won’t feel bad if you choose to move it though. :slight_smile:

I have to fly home for Thanksgiving. And again at Christmas. This means I will be flying from one large metropolitan area to another: Boston to Chicago. And, of course, back again.

I’ve heard people say that there’s never been a safer time to fly than right now because of heightened security and the improbability of terrorists trying the same schtick for their next disaster. I also know that staying out of the air runs contrary to keeping the country running. I know that it resembles “giving in” to terrorists, whose first priority is to scare the crap out of people until we change the way we live. Allowing them to do this to us is unacceptable.

That’s intellectually a very sound viewpoint. However, somewhere underneath the reason and logic sections of my brain, a little thorn is poking me in the paranoia section.

There have been breeches in security numerous times at Logan airport since the September 11 attacks. You know – Logan – where two of the terrorist flights originated on that day. In one instance, a handful of people walked from the parking lot and got on their plane without ever going through a metal detector or a security check. Sure, they say they’ve now fixed such problems. Of course, they said that BEFORE they occurred as well.

And I’m sure you all know that Chicago is home of the Board of Trade and the Sears Tower, among numerous other buildings that play a part in world finances.

I’m not exactly willing to risk my life for turkey and dressing. Even if my mom makes the best dressing in the developed world. What? You say the risk is only 2%? Then I’m not willing to take a 2% risk for pumpkin pie, know what I mean?

Perhaps it IS reasonable and logical to remember that if it happened once it can happen again. We’re now violently attacking those who threaten us, and this undoubtedly makes the likelihood of further terrorist activities much higher.

Again, my rational brain understands that there is risk in everything we do. You can get hit by a car crossing the street – it’s true. But what is an acceptable level of risk that I may end up looking out a plane window at a looming American landmark? Which part of this paranoia is entirely logical and justified, and which part is plain old paranoia?

-L

2

I have no idea if it will make people feel safer or more scared knowing there are people like me out there. But I wouldn’t be surprised if there are several on most every flight.

I’m the kind of guy who likes to be able to take action, and being forced to sit around helpless is the one thing I hate most of all. I’m mostly in a “Why don’t they bring that shit to me” kind of phase. There is a part of me that wants to be on a plane that somebody tries to Hijack. I can’t think of anything more theraputic than having somebody pull a box cutter out on a plane I’m on just so I have a physical enemy with a face right in front of me that I can beat the living shit out of guilt free.

3

Go flying. You have to put this stuff into perspective. First, the odds of the terrorists trying to use aircraft as missiles again is virtually zero - not only is security better, but after what happened to flight 93 they know that the passengers will fight back now, making the chance of success for getting a hijacked aircraft where they want it to go much, much lower. So the skies are almost certainly as safe as they were before the terror started.

Second, remember just how many planes there are out there. At any given time, there are over 400 airliners in the sky over North America. Multiply that by the number of flights per day per aircraft, and you could say that even if you knew for sure that a terrorist act would crash an airplane in the next ten days, the odds of it being YOUR aircraft would be in the range of 10,000 to 1. You would still run a greater risk of dying in a car accident over those ten days.

4

I think that the terrorists are smart. There are plenty of ways to wreak destruction that does not necessarily involve airplanes. It doesn’t take the imagination of a Clancy to think of such ways, just his imagination to write them out in novel form. Why make another attempt on an airplane when they are being so closely watched? Why risk exposing more of your organization? If you suspect that your identity may be even slightly compromised, why make a move on a target that will bring you to attention before you can strike? Again, I think that there are plenty of ways to strike that don’t require an airplane. In fact, should the next attack come in some other form, I’d think it would have a greater impact on our collective psyche- a whole other realm is now deemed unsafe. And, since there are plenty of people like wolfman out there, the chances of another successful attack are slim. I’m willing to fly again, and wish wasn’t restricted to a student’s resources so I could take advantage of more of the offers being made right now.

That being said, there are many ways to take down an airplane mid-flight, ways that will pass the most careful scrutiny of airport security. Again, I’ll leave it to your imagination (certainly won’t post any ideas here) to think of a few on your own. I am reasonably sure that somewhere out there there is someone wishing they had the resources to put such a plan into operation. Maybe they already have them? Maybe they are waiting just long enough for America to become confident in winning the war? Maybe they think striking again at our airlines will prove that we are even more vulnerable to attack than we think.

I’d think that in the short term there will be more folks like wolfman on flights, more people willing to take personal risk to avoid another situation. I’d like to think that even if another attempt is made, the odds of being on that particular flight are low, and the odds of it being successful are lower. I’ll fly again come Turkey-Day an Xmas. I’ll just be sure to sit on the aisle seat across from wolf.

5

It’s as safe to fly now as it was before September 11th. The only thing the hijackings of 9/11/01 really did in terms of air travel is that it revealed the existence of nuts who’d want to hijack airplanes and do Really Bad Things with them. The danger has always been there; at least now we know it.

6

Count me among those who have no fear of flying whatsoever. I plan to support America and the airlines by taking advantage of the incredibly low fares and flying all over the place.

7

Going to ground zero. I’ll be flying again soon into & out of Reagan Airport. I understand sky marshalls will be on those flights. But I’ll fly with or without them. And flying out of LAX: formerly targeted to be exploded or bombed during the Millennium celebration by the same terrorists (allegedly). Flying always has a little risk, just like driving. Maybe a greater risk there! But there are accidents in both cases. SAS, for example (very sad):

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/europe/newsid_1586000/1586581.stm

Wishing you peace.

8

I just went to Walt Disney World for a week and had a Mickey Mouseing good time. Flew direct from Chitown to Orlando and back again and do you know what? I didn’t get hijacked even once the whole time.

Seriously though, it’s highly unlikely anybody’d be able to pull that same shit with the planes again. It’s much more likely they’ll try to poison the turkey supply!!! Biological warfare via salmonella. It was done in the eighties in Texas and it can be done again.

9

That does it, inertia. It’s sushi on T-day! :slight_smile:

10

Almost everyone is aware of the statistics that show that flying is safer than driving. Even with the 4 jets of 9/11 figured into this year’s equation, intuition tells me that flying at any time will still be statistically safer than driving near the holidays. I’ll temper that statement a bit by reciting the saying that goes, “there’s liars, damned liars, and statisticians”.

I have no inherent fear of flying. In fact, I’m hoping to start a new job soon that will return me to regular air travel.

All that being said, I don’t believe that fear of death is the real reason behind a fear of flying. Fear of not having control over your destiny is a much bigger deal. As is the fear of knowing your death is imminent as g-forces demonstrate that the plane is plunging out of control.

[sidebar]

It is my belief that the passengers on the WTC crashes of 9/11 knew that they were going to die, but never new that death was imminent. Passengers have a lousy view forward so they were unlikely to be able to see the tower. The plane that hit the Pentagon is a different story. But there was controlled flight right up until impact. Flight 93 is the exception. The passengers knew that they were going to die unless they could overcome the hijackers. They willingly traded the opportunity to survive for the chance at an uncontrolled nose dive into the ground.

Tough choice, huh? Passively awaiting a peaceful destiny or acting as a catalyst in an uncontrolled descent with little chance of a safe landing.

[/sidebar]

11

This is a terrific point. And 100% true. It doesn’t make me feel much better, however.

I AM flying home for Thanksgiving. In the end, I agree that it’s silly to avoid seeing my family, who I miss very much, because of the miniscule chance that something could go wrong. Something could ALWAYS go wrong.

The thing is, I’ve never felt like I had to worry about that before. And I’m pissed that I do now. I absolutely LOVE to fly. I love the anticipation, the feeling of taking off, the tiny pretend dinners you get, and the little packet of pretzels. I love getting a tiny plastic cup of 7-UP. I’m excited about meeting my mom and dad (who refuse to wait curbside for me) in my terminal when I arrive.

I hate that it’s now been brought to my attention that something like what happened on flight 93 could occur, and I’ll have to decide what to do with my own life. You’re absolutely right, the danger was there before. But in this case ignorance truly is bliss.

-L

12

Hate to burst your bubble, but most airlines have stopped food service as a cost saving measure and airports aren’t letting anyone through to the terminal that isn’t a ticketed passenger (or the parent of a minor coming off a plane traveling alone). So if getting met at the terminal and food service are important, take the train.

13

“And I’m sure you all know that Chicago is home of the Board of Trade and the Sears Tower, among numerous other buildings that play a part in world finances.”

I have never been called, nor have I ever considered myself, a particularly brave man. And yet I not only go past the Sears Tower and the CBOT (and the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, and the Federal Buildings) twice a day on my way to and from work in the Loop without a second thought, I have gone downtown on weekends since 9/11. Not because I had to, but strictly for pleasure. And from the still-crowded L and Metra trains, the shoppers on Michigan Avenue and State Street, the fans at Soldier Field for the Bears games, and the lines to get into the Art Institute (see the “VanGogh and Gaugin” exhibition!) on these brisk fall Saturdays and Sundays, it seems that most people agree with me that downtown Chicago is still THE place to go.

I second Dangerosa’s suggestion to take the train. Not out of fear but because it’s the more comfortable and civilized means of travel when you have the time for it. I have traveled by overnight train – on business, even – for some years now, though I also fly when my schedule demands it. The “Lake Shore Limited” leaves Boston daily, arriving in Chicago the day after you leave Boston, around noonish or so. If you like the “tiny pretend dinners” you get when you fly, you’ll LOVE an Amtrak overnight trip. :slight_smile: Real meals from a menu, on real plates with real metal utensils (Amtrak trusts ITS passengers with knives), at a table with a tablecloth, all while scenery passes by your window, not just clouds.

If you do decide on the train, buy your ticket NOW! Seats are rare, and sleeper compartments even rarer, for travel around “Turkey Day” in a typical year. And after 9/11, train travel has only become more popular.

Geez, do I sound like a radio ad for Amtrak AND the Chicago Office of Tourism, or what? :slight_smile:

14

I am not afraid of hijackings–I would have readily flown the day after the attacks (if they hadn’t grounded everything).

Here’s my new paranoia. I see planes as a mighty quick way to spread communicable diseases. I feel relatively (perhaps naively) safe where I am now. But if I get on a plane, I’m sucking air breathed by people from all corners of the U.S, touching handles and doors and windows that have been handled by people from all over. If there’s something nasty and biological out there, my chances of getting it are upped by being on a plane. It’s a miracle when I don’t come down with a cold after flying. I usually do. I don’t wish to get something nastier.

I realize that we have no proof yet that anyone who knows what they are doing are going to launch some biological attack, especially one that can be spread from person to person, but I still worry a bit. I don’t care so much for myself, but we’re going to fly with my son in a few weeks and I’m seriously thinking of leaving him home. I guess I’ll see what comes up in the next few weeks.

I feel like such a wuss admitting this concern.

15

Given the quality of airline food, this can only be A Good Thing. :slight_smile:

I’d rather they give me back the $5 they saved – I could buy something more fulfilling and better-tasting at the 7-11 anyway…

16

Take the train? Maybe for short distances. But I priced coast to coast round trip on Amtrak. Not only 3 days, but something like 1600 bucks for a sleeper. It’s less than 200 bucks to fly round trip. Guess what I chose?

17

Prior to Sep. 11, I think I heard that there were 36,000 flights a day in the US. Even if you knew the attacks were going to happen (but not which planes it would happen to or what time during the day) your chances of living that day would still be excellent. 4:36,000 is pretty good odds.

Sure, it’s not nice to roll the dice if you don’t have to but you take risks all the time (crossing the street for instance). You could just cower in your home but it’s probably best to just get on with your life and hope for the best (and cowering in your home isn’t 100% safe either…sometimes planes fall on them).

18

SexyWriter,

I just wanna echo your anxieties. I had been been putting off a trip for a few weeks. I finally took it yesterday - Logan to Chicago (and then onto SF). It didn’t help my nerves that once I finally decided to book my flight I ended up choosing the day after the bombing would start. When I heard of the bombing, I hoped my flight would get cancelled.

I know there are 1000’s of flights a day landing safely. I know the terrorists will probly strike somewhere else next. Yet, I was unavoidably edgy going thru Logan yesterday. I kept thinking “it started right here”, picturing those monsters standing in the same lines, walking down the same ramps I was on at the time. If i believed I was a psychic, I’d claim I sensed the imprint they left on the place.

so I didn’t try to talk myself out of feeling nervous. The low likelyhood of danger just didn’t matter much. Mostly, I was *terribly sad *that my previously normal routine was now shadowed by such horrific changes in the world.

the guys in camo with stormtrooper boots & rifles slung on their backs are all over logan. I got the very thorough patdown going thru security. I didn’t feel safer, I didn’t feel my privacy infringed. I just felt sad.

a week ago, I drove past NYC, & couldn’t stop watching where the towers should have been. so it shouldn’t have surprised me, coming into chicago feeling a solice seeing the sears tower still standing, knowing it has been explictly threatened.
My mom was nervous about my flight, as was my son. I had to call a million people at the end to let them know that everything was routine & I was ok.

have a good trip. It’s a good time to be with family.

19

I would have agreed that flying was MORE safe until yesterday. Enroute to Chicago from LA a man with mental problems broke into the cabin of a cockpit.

The passengers said that he was in the back of the plane and bolted quickly and knocked the door and got in and grabbed the co-pilot off the controls.

Fortunately other passengers subdued them. But all that were interviewed agreed he was only like 160 pounds and it took EIGHT other passengers to hold him.

The passengers reported that the man was disturbed and thought the plane was going to fly into the Sears Tower. They also said he easily knocked the female flight attendent aside and the crew seemed unable to handle it.

In fact the captian reported it as a hijacking and passengers said they saw air force jets fly beside them and were sure they would be shot down for something a “CRAZY” man did.

Sounds like they don’t got their act together at all.