No, we’re actually being very careful not to interrupt the relationship. Until we can trust our daughter to follow the rules, however, her girlfriend will not be spending the night in our house, nor will our daughter be going out of town to stay at her girlfriend’s house. If they want to see each other in the meantime, they need to work within those parameters.
I know that 15-year olds have sex. My question is–should they?
Thanks, I think that’s pretty much where we are. I know it’s unsatisfactory to my daughter, but hopefully she’ll take the time she has at the moment (while she and her girlfriend are apart) to consider what we’re saying.
Some are emontionally ready and responsible, some aren’t. I was ready and in a relationship where I felt comfortable with it at 16. Some of my friends had sex earlier, some later. There is no black and white answer here.
I’m not a parent, so I understand if you feel that disqualifies me from having an opinion here, but if you can’t articulate a reason behind your rule, that kind of indicates to me that it’s not a good rule. Are you sure your concern is that your daughter isn’t ready to have sex yet, and not that your not ready for her to have sex yet? You say she’s otherwise a very responsible kid - what makes you think shes being irresponsible in this area? If she’s trustworthy in other areas, maybe you should try trusting her with her own body?
Anyway, all that said, if this is the biggest source of drama between you and your daughter that results from her being gay, you’re still doing an awesome job with her.
You lost me right there.
I agree that parents shouldn’t always fall back on the “Because I TOLD YOU TO, that’s why!” line.
And I think kids should be enstilled with some balls to question authority.
But the time to do that is before a rule is broken. Not after. The daughter knew her parents didn’t want any monkey-business. If she was confused about why, she should have asked when the rules were being drawn up. Not after she’d been caught sneaking.
Anyway, teenagers are usually not easily convinced about the righteousness of a rule they disagree enough with to break. It’s not the job of the parent to convince a kid to follow their instructions, because a smart-ass kid will always have a retort. They will always think a parental worry is stupid. How is a parent supposed to respond to “THAT’S DUMB, DAD! THAT’S NOT GONNA HAPPEN TO ME!” That’s the typical teenagery response to reasonable, mature argumentation.
So I’m all for parents discussing the basis of their rules. But it shouldn’t be a conversation dictated by the rule-breaking teenager who’s already got their heels dug in that they are right.
I think the OP is handling the situation as well as it could be handled.
A point I’d emphasize is that her not keeping her word is a significant issue all by itself regardless of what the context is. That’s an issue about trust and integrity not sex.
But at fifteen, I feel a child has a right to more of a reason than just “because I said so”. They’re on the verge of having to make their own decisions about life so they need to understand why the rules exist. So you have to start explaining the reasons.
I’d say explain to her that sex has more than just physical consequences. There’s the possibility of emotional harm as well. And it can be unintentional harm that neither partner meant to cause. Which is another key factor - there are two people involved. It’s not just the consequences she’s facing - she might end up hurting her girlfriend.
And acknowledge the truth - that sex isn’t always a disaster. Admit there is the possibility that the relationship between the two of them might work out fine with no serious problems. But ask them to acknowledge that the risk is also real and to admit that fifteen year olds are not always as good at weighing risk as they want to believe.
And if worse comes to worse fall back on the old explanation. There’s a time and place for everything. And the time and place for lesbian experimentation is college.
I’m just not understanding the people who are suggesting that because teenagers are going to have sex, the OP should allow his teenage daughter to experiment with sex. By that logic, teenagers are going to drink alcohol, smoke pot, and engage in auto-erotic asphyxiation, but no responsible parent would allow those behaviors.
I’m Not Dennis Bergkamp, I don’t know what the right answer to your daughter is, but you may want to explain to her that someday she and her girlfriend are going to break up. This will leave your daughter who feels she is ready for sex to have to try to find another girl who is ready for sex also. Your daughter will also have to try to figure out when sex should enter a relationship. These are a couple of issues that some adults have difficulty figuring out, and it makes a really hard decision for a teenager.
Having sex while in the mid-teens is normal. How the various issues pertaining to it are dealt with will should be addressed, but shoving it into the closet (or in this case, outside of the bedroom), can come to no good.
Well, I found a Dan Savage Podcast about this very issue, if that helps.
Episode 249, about halfway down the page.
I think it’s important to note that lesbians can acquire STDs. Their chance of catching HIV in particular is much lower than that of gay men who practice anal sex because of the nature of how HIV is transmitted, but they are still at risk for all the other diseases.
I also disagree that “15 year olds will inevitably have sex”. I know that some people do start having sex that young, but within my own social group in high school that was not the norm. If kids are allowed to break any rule that’s unpopular among teens, that’s like letting the teens dictate what the rules should be, and I don’t think that’s healthy. Kids do need boundaries, even if they test the boundaries. I wouldn’t just ignore it if I had a teen who intentionally went against my rule against alcohol use, even though I know a lot of teens experiment with alcohol.
That aside, I wouldn’t put it as “you’re not mature enough” since that’s like issuing a dare to a teenager, but I would agree with the basic idea that the best reason for kids to put off having sex is that sex can complicate relationships in various ways. At her age, she should be focusing on learning about the other aspects of relationships (things like how to tell if someone is being too controlling and so on). I myself had several relationship experiences as a teen that didn’t involve sex and I am grateful that I had a chance to get a better grasp on what I want out of a relationship before sex became an issue.
Yes, a lot of people do grow up having sex from an early age and seem fine, but looking at the adults around me, I see A LOT of adults who have screwed up ideas about relationships and end up in unhealthy situations - sometimes because of sex clouding their judgement. I also feel like teens shouldn’t be in such a hurry to grow up. They have their whole lives to have sex.
I don’t think it’s that surprising that this girl tried to sneak around, but I also don’t think it’s wrong for the parent/homeowner to put limits on what kind of behavior they are willing to accept in their home.
Something that occurs to me, although I don’t know what you can do about it, is to wonder why your daughter broke her promise. As Monstro said, she should have questioned the rule before she agreed to it (and asking after the fact may just be trying to deflect your anger from her broken promise).
I can think of a couple of factors, and they both might be active in the situation:
She fully intended to follow your rule, but proximity after a long separation led to such an intensity of feelings that she lost sight of everything else. That’s just immaturity, and I wouldn’t be too worried about it.
The girlfriend encouraged her to break the rule. This one bothers me. You can’t tell your daughter that her girlfriend is a bad influence, even if it’s true, but it reflects badly on her judgment about other people.
p.s. Monstro, based on that one post, if I could go back in time, I would wish for someone like you for my parent.
Roddy
Wrong? Hell no. I think kids should become sexually active whenever they want to. Ideally when young people first have sex they will have fully consensual and positive experiences with someone kind, who doesn’t pressure them, and is relatively close to their own stage of development and level of experience - but no one is guaranteed a good experience like this at 20 any more than at 13.
By the time they’re in their mid-teens hopefully they’ve gotten enough education to at least know the risks, and do it relatively safely.
For most kids I’ve known, they want to get started between 11 and 14, though most don’t ‘do it all’ until a couple years later. The only exceptions when I was that age were myself and one friend; neither of us got our periods until we were almost 15, so it’s understandable we were very late for all other developmental milestones. A majority of my school friends were having penetrative sex by 15. This wasn’t a bad thing for any of them.
In the case of the OP’s daughter I can hardly imagine more ideal circumstances for allowing your daughter to manage her own sex life. Responsible kid, committed LDR, kids are both virginal and gay…
I don’t really understand parents trying to police their children’s sex lives. Primarily because it’s futile in most cases and causes everyone an immense amount of conflict and stress. But then, I am not a parent, and it’s definitely creepy to encourage your kid to do it (which you would be if you let their girlfriend sleep over and didn’t specify they weren’t allowed to hang out in bed alone together). So the OP’s stance seems reasonable, though if I were him I’d drop the whole ‘maturity’ angle and just tell his daughter flat out that he is not comfortable actively enabling her to have sex with her GF. If they can manage to do it without mommy/daddy dropping them off at the other’s house, that’s their business. 
But if the kid is breaking the rule, whats the point? The point of a rule is to avoid some behavior, if the kid is engaging in the behavior rule or no rule, then endlessly going back and forth with them with their sneaking around, and the parents finding out and punishing them and repeating the cycle just serves to anger everyone involved. Eventually you just reach a state where the original behavior is irrelevant, and the actual argument is about the parents ability to exert their authority. And its an argument the parents always loose, because as time passes, kids only become more independent and less reliant on their folks.
Of course, your right that trying to convince them rationally might not work either. But its really the only way that might work. Threatening to send them to bed without their supper, or grounding them or even kicking them out of the house or whatever just makes them hide their behavior.
Having clear rules and punishments works great for kids under 12 or 13, in my experience. But in their mid-teens they become their own person, and the “I told you so” just isn’t reason enough. You can repeat over and over again that they should obey the rules, but its not whats going to happen. At some point, and almost always before either kids or parents are ready, parents move from the role of boss to the role of advisor, whether they accept it or not.
I can understand your feelings, but it might be interesting to read some academic comarison of different stances towards teenage sexuality. From that site you can also get to Amy Schalet’s homepage with the actual academic article.
I’m not saying you should allow teenagers to have sex, but it was pretty normal when I was growing up to just do this at home; with your parents downstairs if you will. What your daughter now is concerned I would focus on the rule breaking. If you can’t trust her to follow house rules, how can you trust her to make responsible dicisions?(is something you might say…)
No, it’s not wrong, and the fact that you can’t articulate a reason why by your own admission should really force you to re-consider your ill-founded belief.
Arguing with an angry, defiant teenager is another way a parent will lose.
A kid needs to know from the get-go that “them’s the rules.” If they want to have a more mature dialogue about the “why”, then it can’t be in an argument where everyone’s opinions are supposed to be equally weighted. Because as I said, a parent is not going to convince a willful teenager that the rule is not stupid. All the parents can really do is convince them that they aren’t going to budge.
I actually think most teenagers are fully aware of the arguments for why they shouldn’t do things. My rebellious sister knew why she got in trouble for having boys over at the house without our parents knowing, and she knew why she got in trouble for smoking and doing drugs and cutting class. Your standard 15-year-old is going to know why these things are restricted. They just don’t agree that the consequences will affect them.
Another reason the OP can give to her daughter for why she’s in trouble is that in the parents’ judgment, her relationship is still in its nascent phases and they want the girls to actually get to know each other before sharing such intimacy. Of course, it leaves open the door that one day they will know each other enough to make having sex okay. But at least the parents will let their daughter know that they believe sex is more than just another activity.
You want a raise in your allowance, don’t you? 
Is “because I’m your parent and I said so” no longer a valid argument?
Not to be flippant, but there seems to be some sort of assumption here that compliance is contingent on acceptance of your explanation. Discussing your rationale for your rules is fine. Unfortunately, however, it sounds like the OP has created an environment where the parents are put on the defensive defending the rules they establish for their home.
You, as a parent, are not obligated to debate the merits of the rules you lay down in your house as if you are trying to generate support for them in the House of Representatives. You will never come up with an argument that will satisfy your child, as their logic will basically consist of “I want to do what I want”. At best all you will do is create a bunch of logical loopholes they will try to exploit.
We also used to own Negros too. What’s your point?
For certain values of “we”, yes we did.
As for the OP:
Are you sure she really agreed to the rule? I know we sometimes hear what we want to hear, and maybe she wasn’t as on board as you think she was. What was her response concerning breaking the rule?
Personally, I think 15 is too young, in general. Obviously there is going to be differences depending on the individual. For some reason that I’m not 100% sure of, 16 seems OK to me, but not 15. What age does the OP feel comfortable with, and could you articulate that to your daughter? Or, what conditions would exist (regardless of age) that would make you feel comfortable?
And what about the law? What is the age of consent in your state, and do you want to condone illegal behavior in your child?
I can only speak to my own experiences; I was “experimenting” by that age, certainly. In retrospect, I do feel that it was a healthy, good experience.
I knew others at that age for whom it probably wasn’t.
This is something that really depends on the individual, but I don’t think there’s any easy “15 year olds are too young!” factor to point to.