Everything is offensive nowadays. Haven’t you heard?
Your comment offends me.
I’ve heard that too, and I think it’s an example of internalized sexism. We are socialized to consider being young and inexperienced (“Miss”) as preferable to being a respected adult woman (“Ma’am”).
For what it’s worth, Miss Manners agrees with you, noting in response to a query from a bank teller about proper modes of address that “any lady old enough to do her own banking business may be safely addressed as ma’am”.
But Miss Manners has noticed that in recent years some adult women have protested against being addressed as “ma’am” because they think it implies that they’re old and that’s a bad thing.
Personally, I strongly dislike being addressed as “Miss” but I don’t blame it on the hapless retail people who do it, as they’re probably just following protocol dictated by higher-ups.
Dear God.
I thought the equivalent to sir was dame.
Damn, that’s embarrassing! :smack: I’ll blame it on what I said - long day to end a long week. But damn!
If it’s not deemed offensive now, it will be – as soon as the offenderati work their way to that part of the dictionary.
Obligatory Bloom County strip on the subject.
“Ma’am Queenie” ? That sounds weird.
I get “ma’amed” all the time. I don’t get offended because it makes me feel old. I do however, sometimes get offended based on the context. There is a part of my agency where “sir” and “ma’am” are routinely used for people of a higher rank and when people in that part of the agency call me “ma’am”, I don’t get offended. It’s not routine in my part of the agency, though and when people in my part of the agency use it, it can be offensive. Not because of tone exactly - but because it comes across the same way as a police officer saying, " Sir, put your hands behind your back" , making a show of being respectful but not meant to indicate actual respect.
A lot of words are offensive or not depending on context. The classic example is “boy”.
Take “dame”.
“I think Dame Helen Mirren is a great actress.” No problem.
“I won’t tolerate a dame for a boss.” That is definitely a problem.
I have no idea why people want to get an “official ruling” on something regardless of context.
So it is with “Ma’am”. It can be very polite or very rude.
If your aunt asks if you want more pie, “Yes, ma’am.” is just fine.
Oh, man, that reminds me of someone who got let go from my job a few years ago for, amongst other things, a lack of people skills. He – in a completely civilian job – and in the same conversation – used both of the “don’t sir me, I’m not an officer” and “yes sir I will do that” gambits, which came off like he thought he was emphasizing that he resented being lower than his manager who was just trying to be friendly with him.
So what are you supposed to use, when you don’t know someone’s name? Suppose, for instance, I’m behind a woman in the line at the grocery store, and I notice that when she put her credit card away, it slipped out of her wallet and fell on the floor. My inclination would be to say “Pardon me, ma’am, but you dropped your credit card”. What should I say instead? Obviously not “miss”, because that implies that she’s unmarried (which I don’t know), and worse, implies that her marital status is somehow relevant.
I travel quite a bit and service staff (hotel clerks and the like) invariably refer to me as “Mr. Carl [first name].” Happens in Philly, Chicago, Newark, and most other locations. At home, my house cleaner and most other people do the same, but I live in the southeast and that’s to be expected.
I have to confess that my last name is difficult.
I think it’s because your last name is difficult- because my husband and I get “Miss” or “Mr” last name from hotel clerks and such. We only get “Mr” or “Miss” first name from foreign-born staff at doctor’s offices , etc where we are regulars - I’m not sure if they find our last names difficult or if they find first names too informal and Mr last name too formal.
I’m in Upstate NY too and I hear it occasionally. I don’t find it offensive at all. It’s usually used by military people, police, younger people who were educated in a military prep institution, and occasionally by members of the general population, especially when addressing an older person.
It’s an effort at politeness and a bit of deference, so it’s hard to be offended by it. Meh, there are lots of things that could offend me if i try hard enough to be offended. This isn’t one of them.
I hear “miss” a lot too. While that’s more humorous than offensive (due to my age), I still can’t get offended. It’s usually a good will attempt to connect to someone on a more personal level than “hey, you!”.
Maybe there should be a unisex term, then nobody would get offended.
The only time I remember ma’am-ing someone was a woman my age with whom I was involved in a stupid argument. I said it in a patronizing way and she flipped out, saying she was younger than me. I laughed and said, “sure, whatever gets you through the night”. Ohhhhh, was she pissed off; meanwhile I was doubled over laughing at her.
I’d never use the word normally.
Does nobody in the US use “madam” (or is that too redolent of a knocking-shop)?
In the UK, we’d use “ma’am” for a female superior in the uniformed services, and the Queen, in the unlikely event of being introduced to her, but sometimes “madam” in a customer service context (though as noted above, tone of voice can make it somewhat hostile, with overtones of"You’re being a right madam"). Mostly though we 'd just say “you” to male or female. If it’s a case of trying to attract their attention, you might say “Excuse me” or “Hello” or (rarely nowadays, but I might) “I say”. If they’re doing something they shouldn’t, “Oi!You!” is not unknown.
Oh, man, I needed that laugh. Thanks!
What’s wrong with “Pardon me, but you dropped your credit card” ? I don’t get offended by “ma’am” in this situation, but I must admit I don’t see what “sir” or “ma’am” adds, unless there’s a group of people that you may be addressing that only contains one woman or one man.