Is Manchester United's downslide due to Fergies absence, did he plant the seeds, or something else?

The Game Room
#1

Ever since Sir Alex Ferguson left, to me, its been “fuck all” for the mighty Red Devils.

Under Sir Alex, Manchester United won 13 Premierships, with only a early 2000s spell where his squad went without one for a few years, but IIRC, almost always was at the top 4.

I was surprised top learn MU only won two UEFA Champions League titles under his spell, but still, the fact they were won far apart says alot about his durability.

Wont even mention 5 FA Cups.

In his last season, MU won the Premiership, again, then retired. Manchester United have not hired idiots to take his place, two very good coaches, the guy from Everton and Luis deGal. But immediately, there seems to have been a decline:

2013-2014
Manager- former Everton guy whose name I cant remember
Premier League----7th (SHOCKING)
FA Cup-----Third Round
League Cup----Semi-finals
UEFA Champions League----Quarter-finals (OKAY, that is respectable)

2014-2015
Manager Louis van Gaal
Premier League-----4th (GOOD, back in the UEFA CL)
FA Cup-----Sixth Round—weak
League Cup----Second Round

2016 under van Gaal:
still in all cups
Now in Europa league after being demoted from CL, and from what I saw just got embarrassed from some club in Scandanivia
Currently 5th in Premier league

My impression is the top three results would have been unthinkable under Sir Ferguson. Am I being unfair?

Was David Moyes (finally looked it up) that bad of a manager? What, did the players refuse to perform for him now that Sir Alex retired?

Was perhaps Manchester United on the downslide under Sir Alex, and Fergie retired at the right time, handing over a poison pill to his successor? Hard to believe since they won the Prem and then dropped to 7.

It seems like there is some improvement under de Gaal. But is it enough to save his job? Has there been any talk among United faithful about bringing Ferguson back?

I have noticed since Ferguson left, clubs like City, Leicester, and Tottenham have magically have worked their way into the top 4; is it simply because Ferguson was that great (and the owner of Chelsea is a basket case) and they are now benefiting from his absence.

Or was this going to happen anyway? Did Sir Alex have similar 3-5 year dry spells where maybe even his job was on the line at MU?

#2

Yeah, they had the bad luck of being the best team ever in English history from 2007-2012, unfortunately in Europe they were facing the best team in European history… if you want to see how good Barcelona were in that era, just look at the 2011 Final, Barca made Man U look like schoolboys… a club which had reach 3 European Cup finals in 4 years.
As for the current crop.

i) Van Gaal is overrated.
2) They have no Center Forward, Center Half, Center Back.
3) The only creative player they have is Mata; who is best as a deep lying forward; where they play [del]Shrek[/del] Rooney, who is lousy and Mata is wasted on the flanks.
4) Martial is potentially a new CR7. Unfortunately he does not quite have the supporting talent to apprentice under like CR7 did in his first 3 seasons.
5) Van Gaal is overrated.
6) Players don’t seem to believe in the team or the system.
7) Did I mention that Van Gaal is overrated?

#3

I know bugger all about the round ball game, but often listen to the experts on radio spouting off on a variety of sports.

On this topic, it was said (not suggested) that Ferguson, once he knew he was going, did not invest in anything that would assist the team or his successor once he had gone.

True? I have no idea.

#4

Uniteds problem are not some Fergie holdover, there is absolutely nothing stopping a good manager taking that group of players and making an effective team out of them.

Their current woes are because of two bad managers and a bad CEO that freezes like a rabbit in the headlights when it comes to dealing with bad managers.

#5

The solution is not to bring in Jose Mourinho

#6

They lost the heart an soul of the team along with SAF. Giggs, Carrack, Ferdinand, van Nistelroy etc

#7

There is probably some truth to this. The squad during Ferguson’s final season wasn’t great, or particularly young. Im not sure there was anything necessarily sinister in Ferguson not building for the future(it depends on how much of an ego you think the man has). If you are being generous to Ferguson you can argue he was letting the next man make his own mark on the squad. If you view him in a sinister light then he left a poisoned chalice for his successor.

Sometimes the era of football domination by a club just ebbs & flows. It happens to almost every club.

#8

Allowing both Fergie and David Gill to leave at the same time was pretty unforgivable for one of the top three clubs in the world.

It was always going to be a rather poisoned chalice to be the manager who followed Fergie, but David Moyes didn’t really help himself by bringing his own team in.

Van Gaal is looking like a dinosaur, all the Man U fans I know are scathing about him.

To address the OP: Fergie came into United promising to “Knock Liverpool off their fucking perch.” He did that, but he wasn’t going to go on forever. They were champions when he left, and there has been huge amounts of money spent since, so I think it unfair to blame him.

#9

Terrible CEO and even worse owners who have drained hundreds of millions from the club and only invested, hastily, when it was clear that the ship was going to sink.

They have gutted the club, the academy, the scouting system and generally given parasites everywhere a bad name.

Ferguson aided and abetted their acquisition of the club when he got into a fight over horse semen.

#10

Didn’t George Graham really do that though? It had been 3 years since Liverpool won the titled when United won it in '92.

#11

I’d have to say no. Sure he had a bit of success before following a predecessor Terry Neal to becoming a Fifth Columnist at Spurs, but you can’t really say (despite that Micky Thomas goal) that he “Knocked Liverpool off their fucking perch”.

#12

In Fergie’s last season Man Utd were anyway at a point where they too reliant on the creaking remnants of former great Man Utd teams and were desperately in need of investment. Man Utd over-performed and their opponents under-performed, which is why they won the title. Add to that the loss of Fergie and it is not surprising they have struggled so much.

David Moyes is/was a good manager, but not on the same level as Ferguson

#13

Btw, if there was any doubt about Ferguson being one of (if not the) best manager of all-time he did some pretty amazing things at St Mirren and Aberdeen before he came to Man Utd. His only “failure” was his brief time in charge of Scotland in which he had been part of the coaching team that had got them to the WC and had taken over for the play-offs due to Jock Stein (Feruson’s mentor) dying during their last qualifying group game. They weren’t total rubbish, but certainly had it in them do better than finishing last place in their group.

#14

To be fair, he wasn’t given four years like Fergie was. It’s almost a repeat of Busby going, O’Farrell and McGuinness. It’s been unbelievably bad management by the Glazers.

Not that I give a toss - I support Spurs…

#15

I remember seeing that. An awful shocking moment.