This.
What does this mean re “a quad”?
Indeed. Contempt for your SO is one of the most accurate predictors that a relationship is doomed.
Yep. I guess my main point is that you shouldn’t be talking to your significant other that way. As others have said, contempt is not a good sign for a marriage. Like I said, I think he needs compassion, and he needs to be hit hard with it, because underneath anger there is probably hurt or some other emotion he’s trying to avoid. In my personal experience, the angrier I get, the more I need compassion. And when your partner is that angry, it’s time to stuff your pride and realize that the relationship as a whole is more important than winning this argument. Surprise him with love. If you can crack that brittle shell and talk to him about what’s really going on, and how you can support him, and changes you’re also willing to make… that’s a place to start.
Just an offhand joke about the recent kerfluffle on the board with “quadriplegic” poster, Umkay, getting outed and banned.
As for this OP, I don’t think I’d put up with a partner that called me names on a regular basis. Sounds like a pretty crap situation all around.
Absolutely. Been there. shudder
You just described my first marriage. Except my ex-husband never even worked full time, while I worked 60 hours a week and came home to cook dinner every night between loads of laundry. :smack:
She did say that he was now shopping his resume around looking for a different job. It seems to me that that would be a reasonable compromise; supportive on her end could be agreeing to a reduced standard of living if he finds a job he likes better that pays less, or something like that. It seems that she wants security and he wants a change. There ought to be some way for them both to get their first priority.
Okay, let me see if I can fill in some blanks and address the questions/points put out there by all of you. (Thank you to all of you for responding, by the way.)
I am 27 and my husband is 32. We owned our own home for five years but went through a short sale in December of 2010 and moved in with my parents. We bought our house before the housing bubble burst and so were paying an enormous amount of money for a two bedroom home. We moved in here when my second daughter was about three months old. We had wanted to be out of here before the end of 2011, but we have had difficulty getting a handle on our finances. I have been feeling like the only way we are going to make it out of here is if I do go out and get a job. My children are almost 4 and almost 2 years of age. My parents and in-laws all work and are not an option for childcare unless it’s during a weekend.
My husband works as a driller in the oil fields and he has a rotating schedule of four days on, four days off; and while he is working he is typically out of town and doesn’t come home until after his last shift. He does not, however, get vacation time. He cannot work fewer hours.
He has been talking about starting his own business for years, but his idea has changed many times. Right now, he wants to set up a wedding planning/equipment rental business. He has not attempted to research or plan his business ideas in the years he has been talking about starting one. Two weeks ago, he suddenly said he wants to put in his two-week’s notice and jump into the business, I reminded him that I have offered to help him write a business plan. (It’s difficult to do that when the idea is constantly changing.) I even bought the Business Plans Kit for Dummies for him for Father’s Day, telling him I would be happy to help him. He said, “That doesn’t solve the problem of me wanting to quit my job.” I want to help him do this slowly and gradually, but he insists that if he doesn’t up and leave his job NOW he will never start his own business. He has told me that he believes I want him to suffer and be miserable, which is ridiculous. Of course I don’t feel that way!
And as far as me not caring about his dreams or his feelings? I care deeply about them. I try to engage him in conversation about these things often, but even before this battle it was difficult to get him to open up about how anything made him feel. He seems to have less difficulty with telling me what a moron I am (yes, he HAS called me a moron.) And if he doesn’t want to discuss this dream of business ownership with me unless it’s to hear me say, “Yes! Please go for it despite your lack of experience and our lack of information and planning AND the hardships it will cause our family,” what is left for me to do? No matter how many times I have told him I will help him do this with planning and preparation, he simply assumes I want nothing to do with this dream.
My parents becoming involved is my fault. When my husband refused to talk to me any more about this issue and stopped treating me civilly, I talked to his mom and mine. His mother said he was nuts for wanting to leave a well-paying job to start a business in this economy. She said he should stay where he is for now. And then she turned around and started helping my husband look for money to start his business at his request. My mom was incredibly upset that he could be so selfish. My parents are on my side because they feel it is, for the most part, the side of reason. But they haven’t always been on my side when my husband and I have had problems. I may be their daughter, but they aren’t afraid to tell me when they think I’m screwing up. My dad suggested I go to work once the girls are in school, which sounds totally reasonable to me. But it doesn’t seem like that is going to be enough to appease my husband.
I don’t feel that reminding my husband that he has a responsibility to his children is using them as a tool against him. He has been angry, however, and taken our children out without telling me where or for how long. This during times when I have recently needed some time to myself and he accuses me of not wanting to be a part of this family. Because I wanted to do a bit of shopping by myself or spend time with a friend. Also, I have never told him he couldn’t spend time with his friends. On the contrary, I wish he would do it more often, though I think his staying in so much is a side effect of the depression.
I have offered to help him find another job. He was resistant until Thursday evening, but he didn’t apply for anything or even bookmark a single job listing.
I have been considering marriage counseling and have been shopping around for such services.
We obviously have issues beyond this particular snag. He never apologizes for any wrongdoing because he feels I don’t deserve it; I end up apologizing for anything that will get him talking to me again. When I show him my artwork or tell him about something that excites me, he nods or raises his eyebrows or says , “Oh-kay.” If he seems upset with me I often have to guess what I have done wrong or badger him until he tells me. He says, “If you don’t already know, why should I tell you?” It typically is something like, I have forgotten to do something or have had to put something off until the next day that can truly wait. He never tells me I look nice, that something I have cooked is delicious, or that he is proud of me or happy to be with me. I believe strongly in compromise, but my husband finds it difficult to do so. But these are issues which we have always had and maybe should have been examined more closely by myself before deciding to have a child or two.
I have been deeply depressed in the past and feel like I can understand a bit of where he is coming from. All of the afformentioned problems seem to have multiplied exponentailly in occurence over the past few years, and I believe his deepening despair is the problem. But through all of the crap we have dished out to one another, I love my husband, damn it. I want nothing more than to be bickering with and boning him for the rest of my life. But, to me, what should have been a small obstacle requiring frank discussion, a molehill, has become an emotional battle, a mountain.
I hope I have addressed at least almost every point. My tired mind can’t go on anymore tonight, I don’t think. Thanks again for all of your responses.
Seems like things that used to be small were ignored until they became overwhelming. What you do is sometimes less important than that you do something with stated intent. Don’t try to solve every problem all at once.
It’s important that you work together. Each of you make a list of three things you want. Then trade and make a list of a small action you can take in the direction of acknowledging each want.
Try to keep it positive, small, doable, and forward thinking.
If possible seek counseling, but at least set aside an hour a week just for imagining and creating small positive relationship changes together.
Make sure your intentions are clear. Say to yourself, my goal is not “get what I want” or “escape my fears” but instead “create a great relationship together”.
Professional counseling is your only hope, in my opinion. You both come off as pretty emotionally immature (taking the kids and not telling you, calling each other names, going to his Mom with your problems, both too stubborn to compromise!), in your explanation. You conveniently overlooked taking any ownership, or willingness to work. After 2 kids, you say you think perhaps you should have discussed some of this stuff earlier. This all screams immaturity to me, much easier to understand in a 23yr old than a 30 something.
The both of you clearly get something out of the dysfunction or you wouldn’t both keep doing it, I think. You both may want to keep ‘boning’ and claim ‘love’ still. But this isn’t what love looks or feels like. People who love each other don’t call each other ‘moron’, rat their spouse out to the parents, or stubbornly stand in the way of the others dreams/needs.
It sounds like you could benefit from financial counseling as well. You lost your house to a short sale, have been at your parents 1-2 yrs, and are facing more financial stress should your husband quit his job. Financials don’t seem your strong suit, get some help. Be prepared you’ll be told to get a job.
I wish you nothing but luck. I think you’re going to need a boatload of it to turn this trainwreck around, Good Luck to you both!
My bad, you’re not 23, you’re 27, I misread your post, so sorry.
Isn’t oil drilling one of those high pay/high risk jobs? You sound like you seriously need to get your finances in order if it won’t pay for you to move out of your parents’ house, even at a reduced standard of living. I’d say that should be your first order of business - where does your money go and where should it be going?
Ok, you have some major problems, and it’s probably not going to be fixed easily. Look, even when my SO and I were your age, and at each other’s throats a lot more, and fighting, he NEVER called me names, and I NEVER called him names. “Moron”? That speaks of a major problem.
He cannot just drop everything and give his two week notice and start his business. It’s natural for him to be frustrated but he has responsibilities now, to his kids. All the same, if I were you, I would immediately start looking for a job and childcare opportunities now. What are you going to do when he comes home one day and says, “Hey, moron, I quit my job, what are you going to do now?”
I don’t recall if you said he’s always been depressed or this is a new thing. Either way, he’s lashing out, but he should totally not lash out at his life partner. All my life that’s been my one thing: I can get through anything, anything, if I have my partner with me. I do my damndest not to lash out at him when it’s not his fault.
Does he say you don’t deserve an apology? I mean, from what you say, he has NO respect for you, which is - and I’m going to be brutally frank here - a horrible, horrible place to raise your kids. Your four year old is getting to an age where he will notice the tension and stress and frankly, dislike, between his parents. He’s going to grow up considering your marriage is the “right” way and it’s going to take him years, if ever to change his mind.
At this point you are in it pretty deep. You have kids with this man, and that’s not an easy thing to break off. However, it may end up being the best. GET SOME COUNSELING. If he won’t go, go on your own. But don’t expect it to be a miracle cure. At some point you are going to have to decide what you want to do and no counselor is going to help you.
How much are your parents supporting you, btw? Also you should start making a plan for when - not if - he quits his job abruptly. Are you going to be able to eat? Will you have to go on food stamps? That’s not shameful, btw. Not if it is to feed your kids. Start making yourself a plan now. Where is the income going to come from?
And are you guys saving? Like Zsofia says, where does the money go? Start a budget.
You want to wait to go back to work when the kids go to school. What is that, two more years before the little one goes (preschool)?
Look, I was in your situation. Granted, mine was a little less crazy. I never bought a house. And I never had kids. But I’ve been financially very irresponsible, to the point of bad credit. Now I am thirty-six and have very good credit and just bought a brand new car, paid it down completely, have savings in the bank, a retirement plan, etc., etc. And no parents to help me at all. So you can fish yourself out. But as others have said, you are at the far end of a trainwreck and need to back yourself out.
Your husband needs to stop calling you names, though. We’re going nowhere with that. Did he always have such disrespect for you?
If you want to talk more over PM or e-mail I’d be willing to. We can hash out some more of the details. I feel for you and wish you luck.
Taking the comments in her last post at face value, I wouldn’t hold out much hope even then. Sadly, it doesn’t sound like he has much respect for her as a person, let alone a spouse.
In the OP, she said he tells her daily that he loves her. If it were me, I’d honestly ask “why?”
I’ve long held that there were three necessary conditions for a marriage to work. This isn’t about what you do to make it work; this is what you’ve got to have before you can say it’s worth trying.
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Mutual trust and respect.
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Shared/compatible goals, dreams, values, worldview.
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A genuine enjoyment of each other’s company.
I’m not seeing this one stack up too well here, in all sorts of ways.
I think the OP should definitely go back to work. Right now, a job might pay for no more than day care, but after awhile maybe she gets promoted or having this job enables her to find a better job, and eventually she and the kids aren’t financially dependent on hubby anymore, which may be a necessity in time.
One thing that bothers me about hubby, besides the most obvious stuff like not respecting his wife, and thinking he can just ditch his job on a whim and start his own business, is that while a four days on, four days off work schedule may be stressful, it also provides a lot of time for applying for other jobs, researching what it would take to make a business of one’s own work, and stuff like that. He could be planning his exit strategy from his current job, but he isn’t, according to the OP. From her description, he’s just not grounded in reality much at all.
If he’s not dealing with his life realistically at age 32, one can hope he’ll finish growing up sometime soon, but it’s sure not the way to bet.
How is it not self evident, to two 25+yr old adults, with a child, in financial straits, (losing their home, living off their parents, miserable on their job), that choosing to have a second child will make life get really hard, really fast?
You’re both dug into your positions, like being ‘right’ is going to help in some way. It’s not. Refusing to compromise like petulant children. And two actual young children to watch the show!
Life’s not likely to get easier any time soon for either of you. Should your marriage fail, you will both be much poorer immediately. Life will get much harder again. You will end up with a job, unless your parents are willing to effectively raise your children to adulthood for you, while you all live in their home.
It’s time for both of you to do some growing up. Stop putting it off already.
Talk to someone now! Like Anaamika said, you should do it even if you have to go by yourself. You both are doing yourselves a disservice.
On the one hand, your husband sounds like a dick, but that can be the depression speaking. Either way, it’s inexcusable, whether he tells you he loves you or not. Having been in an emotionally, verbally and ultimately physically abusive relationship, I can tell you that my ex used to say he loved me after he lashed out not out of genuine love but to get me to stay.
On the other hand, you need to stop being the victim here. Don’t waste time wondering whether you should get help - get help now. Give yourself 5 more minutes to read if you must (set a timer), then stop shopping for a therapist and call one. So, you could look at it this way:
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Stop “shopping around” for a therapist and make an appointment. Find out who’s in your plan’s network, find out what their specialty is (family and couples therapy), possibly glance at some reviews and make an appointment. You might go to this therapist once and decide you need to find someone else, but setting an appointment is a good first step. This is just the start. Make sure you keep the appointment.
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Get your budget together. How much $ do you need to get out of the hole you’re in and how much is your husband’s salary contributing to that? What else are you paying for? Are there areas where you can cut your expenses so you can find more money to put toward a better financial picture? Then put together several scenarios: what happens to your finances when just your husband works (current), when you both work (ideal financially) or if just you work (likely scenario given your husband’s current state of mind)? Even if your husband refuses to help you do this, do it yourself. One of you has to grow a pair and do this.
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Get online and start looking for a job and figure out the logistics of childcare.
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Continue to support your husband emotionally and encourage him to do what he dreams of doing. Keep asking questions. Keep offering to help plan. At the same time, if he tells you you’re a moron again, you should tell him how much that hurts you. If you’ve said or done something hurtful yourself, that’s when you apologize, but you shouldn’t say sorry for him calling you a moron. You’re hurting yourself when you do that and you’re telling him it’s ok to call you a moron. You’re also telling your kids it’s ok to call their mother names.
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Figure out what happens if you separate. This seems extremely likely at this point.
And for what it’s worth, I can understand talking to your parents about your problems. I go to my mom sometimes when I have problems as well. But she never, ever comments to my husband about it. Neither should your parents. If they can’t keep their mouths shut, you shouldn’t go too much in depth about it. Do you have close friends you trust who you can talk to? Also, I would avoid talking about this to your husband’s parents.
You have a ton of work to do. It’s going to be very difficult, but you need to stop dicking around here and do something.
I don’t know. I’ve already seen this happen with some close people. They were in serious dire straits. He was cutting, she was miserable, both were depressed and undergoing counseling, living with parents, unable to buy a house, and yet they went ahead and had another kid. And they were older than me - late thirties. :eek:
Children do NOT make everything better. But the OP can’t take back the child now; he’s 2, so they have to go on from here.
Fantastic post (#53), Anaamika.
Thanks! I hope it helps at least a little. I know what it’s like to be up shit creek with no paddle. I’m just grateful I never brought kids into the mix, too. 