There’s been a lot said in this thread about how sex between adults and pre-adults is psychologically harmful to the pre-adults. I hold the opinion,, based on a few stories I’ve heard, that consenting sex between a teen-ager and an adult is viewed by the teen-ager as a positive experience, both at the time and later when the teen-ager reaches adulthood. Obviously, not everyone’s opinion here agrees with that assessment.
Since this IS the Straight Dope message board, what I/we really should ask is: What studies have been done on this subject? Have impartial surveys been done of people who, as teen-agers, had sexual relations with adults? What were the results of these studies?
Quick-N-Dirty Aviation: Trading altitude for airspeed since 1992.
Last Friday, a Maryland man got sentenced to 36 years in prison for having two sexual relationships, one with a 14-year old girl; the other with a 15-year old. In both cases, the fact that the girls initiated the ‘relationship’ and were willing partners mattered not.
In fact, the judge said that it was the man’s duty to be responsible and act the adult, as children need to be protected from themselves in spite of themselves in matters of sexual conduct with adults.
One may have a cavalier attitude toward high school kids having sex with adults, but the truth of the matter is that there is a very real risk of the adult spending a long time in prison, whether the child wants that or not.
Maybe Stoidela and her friend would not reminisce so fondly if the two men involved were still in prison.
BTW, I agree with the judge, and the man going to prison, even though 36 years seems a little harsh.
I have a problem with teen/adult sex, depending upon the circumstances. I had sex with an adult when I was a teenager. Liked older men. Still do. Married one.
On the OTHER hand. I have teenager girls. I don’t think they’re even close to being emotionally responsible enough for sex. Especially with an older man. And no, I’m not deluding myself. At least for the moment, they’re not sexually active. crossing my fingers
I know that I probably wasn’t anymore mature than they are at that age. But it would really break my heart to see them hurt. So, if it happens to them, even with their consent, I’ll press charges. Which is a lot more civil than what their father would do.
I checked out the Web on the Guyon Society. It has a fair presence there, but essentially only as an unelaborated weapon used on pages concerned about child sexual abuse, on right-wing Christian anti-gay pages and on other conservatives’ pages.
I found this on a Canadian page:
3.5 One of the US support groups, the Rene Guyon Society, achieved a certain notoriety in the 1970s and early 1980s with its slogan of “sex before eight, or else its too late” and its claims of a membership numbering in the thousands. However, the 1986 United States Senate subcommittee report commented that the Society “is widely known by most investigators as a one-man propaganda operation whose membership claims are not credible”. [note #78]
It’s not clear to me, from what I find on the Web, whether the “group” was/is male-homo-oriented or hetero-oriented. Some of the info on the “group” on the Web was taken from this:
“Rene Guyon Society promotional/information package distributed in Beverly Hills, California, on March 20, 1981.”
Typical hostile descriptions, on the Web, of this and other pedophilic organizations are:
The Rene Guyon Society in the United States is named after a notorious child abuser. To become a member you must have intercourse with a child younger than eight years old. Their motto is “Sex before eight or it’s too late.” It claims 5,000 members. The North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) combined with the Rene Guyon Society claim a membership of over 25,000.
(12) Another predominate homosexual/paederasty organisation
is ‘The Rene Guyon Society’ it “boasts” 10,000 members, they also feel no shame in
proliferating their slogan: “Sex Before Eight or it’s Too Late!” (Thats not 8pm but Aged 8!). Other paederast groups include the the Childhood Sensuality Circle, PAN, Lewis Carroll Collector’s Guild, and the Eulenspiegel Society. The largest British Paedophilie organisation is the Paedophilic Information Exchange (PIE), which is ‘fighting’ to lower the age of consent to four years.
The pedophilic Rene Guyon Society of Los Angeles is more strident: its crude motto is “Sex by eight or else it’s too late.” The British Pedophile Information Exchange (P.I.E.) wants the age of consent dropped as low as four.
I doubt there is much of any real organization of pedophiles in CA-US, since the political climate is extremely hostile to them, and the penalties extreme – for even the most minor of acts, or suspicioned acts, with children. Most of this state is quite right-wing, despite some relatively liberal centers in SF and LA. I have seen news items indicating that certain unorganized but intercommunicating blocs of pedophiles have been picked up by law enforcement.
Apparently some of the above cames from the LA namesake source:
“Reference: Rene Guyon Society
promotional/information package distributed
in Beverly Hills, California, on March 20, 1981.”
Guyon didn’t like the League of Nations’ and UN views on sexual rights:
“‘Rene Guyon proposed that we amend the Declaration of Human Rights with the following section: "Everyone has the right to sexual freedom and the free disposal of his or her body to that end; and no person shall be molested, prosecuted, or condemned by the law for having voluntarily engaged in sexual acts or activities of any kind whatever, provided they are devoid of violence, of constraint, and of fraud.’ (quoted by Haeberle 1983, p.169)”
Another synopsis of Guyon:
“In Bangkok, the French judge René Guyon, who, earlier in the century, had been called to Thailand by the Thai government, begins his radical “Studies in Sexual Ethics”. He demands the right to sexual fulfillment for all women and men as long as they do not violate the rights of others. Of the 9 volumes written until 1944, only 6 are published in French (2 also in English). In the 1940’s, Guyon also attacks the repressive sexual policies of the League of Nations, and he repeats his criticism in 1951, when he
accuses the United Nations of betraying the idea of sexual rights in their Universal Declaration of Human Rights.”
Here is mention of another aspect of Guyon found on the Web:
The issue of age and age difference, chronologically by year, as opposed to volition or violence, in respect to any behavior interpretable as of a sexual nature – or representative thereof, such as child pornography – is probably one that will always be accompanied by outspoken disagreement. There certainly could be better conciliation on the subject and resultant improvement in laws in most jurisdictions, since much of the law has resulted from knee-jerk legislation after extreme crimes, and is further misused beyond its literal language. Academic views held, under the concept of ‘science’ or whatever, also really aren’t going to act as suitable solutions alone either. The subject is inherently subjective, beyond the pertinent considerations of physiology in immature individuals. I certainly agree with some others here, that the general issue covers two distinctive psychophysiological problem areas, those where the minor is preadolescent and those where she/he is postadolescent. Of course, there are the problems of the transitional period and the age at which adolescence occurs in the particular individual, along with all the other psychosocially specific elements involved in sexual behavior in general. The extent of acts charged, however, can range from rather inconsequential ones to murder. If the full range of sexually indicative acts be determinative of the label ‘pedophilia’, I don’t doubt the existence of the numbers of adherents to this preference that are attributed to these organizations, as cited on the Web, who engage in at least the minimal acts that are targeted.
The worst part of the right-wing descriptions is the lumping of all acts in any way related, or suspicioned as so, to sex with children, from the innocuous or nonfactual to the fatal. Some of this is present in this SD thread, but here is an extreme example from the Web:
. BUT BY FAR THE MOST DEADLY TYPE OF CHILD PORN IS “SNUFF”
PORNOGRAPHY, IN WHICH THE PORNOGRAPHER ACTUALLY KILLS THE CHILD DURING THE
FILMING SESSION TO ADD REALISN TO HIS
Yes. Nambla does exist, and yes, gay men hate that organization with a passion…nearly all of us.
This information is incorrect. Attraction to teenagers is actually very uncommon in the gay community. I have known 100s of gay men, and only two were more attracted to teenagers than to men in their twenties and 30s.
This dirty little secret you mention is actually completely backwards. There were a series of articles written by boys in the 18 to twenty range who had moved to San Francisco to find older boyfriends. They found that their older boyfriends were very badly ostracized by the gay community, and that the straight people in San Francisco were actually far more accepting to these relationships than the gay people were.
If anything, gay men tend to be quite prejudiced against chickenhawks.
I would never date a twenty year old myself because I have heard stories of younger people getting suicidal when their relationships don’t work out, so I know that younger people have more difficulty dealing with relationships emotionally that older people, but I don’t think I would ostracize someone for dating a 20 year old. On the other hand, 18 is a bit hard for me to fathom, but, evidently so many straight people wouldn’t worry about the emotional stability of an 18 year old girl entering a relationship.
We have barred Nambla from our community centers and gay rights parades, and, I imagine that some within our community must have contacted the FBI at various points about them, if we hear any thing. What more can we possibly do?
The problem with your idea is that the issue isn’t so much sexual desire and consent by the minor, but rather the position of power an adult has over a child. A child is not emotionally capable of fending off the advances of an adult. An adult can mentally convince a child or make the child feel he/she has to do something because an adult is in the position of authority.
As some others have said here, I will be more than happy to solve the problem if I find out an adult ha touched one of my children. they won’t be happy and it will end up being a bad day for them.
Heterosexuals idolize youth, too. Just look at how many porn sites there are advertising about their “hot slutty teenagers”, or the countdown clocks on the Internet for when the latest child actress will become “legal”. And yet the vast majority of heterosexuals somehow manage to keep their zippers shut around actual, real-live girls. I see no reason not to assume the same of homosexuals.
And to the OP’s question, about six months ago I saw a car with a pro-NAMBLA bumper sticker on it. I was surprised, to say the least, to see a public admission of such (though I suppose it’s conceivable that someone other than the owner put it on as a tasteless prank).
This thread was last posted to 13 years ago, and the person you are responding to might not realize it has been revived after all these years, so you might not get a response.
If it’s OK to be off-topic in this ancient beast, I’m curious about the cause of the posts that don’t have a username listed (and, I think, one post that is devoid of username AND content). There are obviously other banned posters whose posts have shown up in the thread, so is this what happens when someone is wished into the cornfield?
It’s my understanding that there was a transfer of the SDMB from one format to another back then, and some data didn’t make it across properly. So posts that old sometimes are missing things.