Long story short, I’ve been trying to work out a romantic relationship with a woman I care about deeply, who every time we date for a few weeks, abruptly breaks up with me, telling me with scary repetition that she’s not attracted to me, and doubts that she ever can be, sorry. Then she wants to stay friends with me. I decline, because my feelings are so hurt and I’m trying to figure out what just happened with us, but she calls me and writes, and we begin to seee each other again socially but not romantically or sexually, and then she tells me that she’s starting to find me appealing in a sexual/romantic way she never has before, and I resist, and she persists, and eventually…the whole cycle starts again. She’s broken up with me now a world’s record five times in the last ten months, with long periods of not being touch wiht each other at all.
Sorry to begin with such a non-GQ-intro, because I’m interested in getting a GQ answer: my therapist (who’s counseled her and me in a couples’ environment briefly in January) just saw me (after the record-breaking breakup #5) and suggested that she’s probably suffering from some kind of personality disorder, probably Narcissism, and there’s not much I can do to change this. He said she needs to enter counseling, and it’s a long haul.
I wrote to her (I’m trying not to start the cycle so all contact with her is very dangerous for me) and told her, begged her, to consider getting some help, rather than continue to date men looking to start a relationship, because it will end badly for everyone unless she deals with her problem. (I’m refusing to date her even if she passes inspection by the Freud Institute.)
Am I doing her a favor by recommending counseling? Does it work? How often is it effective? What is the treatment that narcissists go through?
It only has a chance of working if the narcissist really wants to change, and is together enough to implement the changes suggested.
My pshrink friend suggests that for those who are committed to changing, the success rate of meaningful, lasting change may approach 40 or 50%
He also notes there aren’t that many narcissists who are all that committed to changing. Most don’t tend to care that other people are getting hurt by their behavior. They are narcissists, after all!
But they may decide to change if their own behavior causes them enough pain.
my ex wife was a narcissist. Mirrors everywhere in the house, completely self-centered, OCD with her looks and makeup.
We divorced because I couldn’t possibly give her the attention she needed and still live a semblance of a life. I tried to get her to go to counseling, and I also tried to calmly talk it over with her on many occasions. It would be fine for a week, then back to me, me, me – I’m on fire. Put me out.
I think that it’s untreatable. It’s so ingrained into their personality that I don’t think any shrink would be able to completely exorcise that demon.
I say that life’s too short to date the insane. Ditch the bitch and move on.
Personality disorders are generally not treatable. The behavior is so ingrained that it’s just who they are; it cannot be changed any more than a dog can be changed into a cat. Perhaps it’s possible to train a dog to act like a cat, but it’s always going to be a dog no matter what.
Only bad things can happen by continuing this relationship in any capacity.
It’s written by a non-professional, but I found the info hereto be super-useful when I was dealing with the dawning awareness that my mother is probably NPD. It’s not useful as far as saying “Here’s how to treat NPD” (since that’s nearly impossible**) but it was very, very helpful to have some perspective on what these people are like and how they make their decisions.
** OP, here’s the harsh reality: YOU cannot help this woman. She has to *want *to help herself, and be willing to put in a lot of very hard work to change herself. It’s. Not. Up. To. You.
Suggesting counseling, once, is fine. After that - you’ve said your piece. Move on.
QtM: She is a very sensitive and usually sweet and level-headed woman in her late fifties, at the tail end of a 40 year failed marriage, who is frightened of wasting her remaining good years on this earth without ever having experienced romantic bliss. She’s very unhappy, I think, with her life (she lives in a small rented, sparely furnished one bedroom apartment, works long hours, including every weekend, and apart from me and a few female friends her age, mostly spends her evenings after work alone. ) She says she’s fine but I’m pretty sure she’s eager to have a more rich, fulfilling satisfying life. When I’ve seen her, we’ve enjoyed some wonderful days and nights, but we’ve also been going through this emotional sturm-und-drang after a few good weeks, which is hell for me and must be at least sheer heck for her, the tears, the accusations, the recriminations. I think it’s pretty damned painful, and I think she must find it so as well.
Given the latest information regarding this person’s history, I’d not be so quick to label her with a personality disorder. It seems like there is a lot going on emotionally, especially with the end of such a long marriage. Instead of a personality disorder, it could be garden-variety grief, confusion, and fear/anger over her situation.
That doesn’t mean you have to keep being the punching bag, though.
You’re better off looking up the symptoms and seeing if they fit, rather than using the original definition.
My experience is that NPDers don’t actually lose their narcisism, but learn to deal with it. Apparently, you can even become a psychologist with it–only problem is that you’ll treat your help like crap.
A family member’s family member was diagnosed NPD and has been treated and improved. The problem is he put his spouse and kids through years and years of hell before the spouse was willing to really and truly cut him off, then after some period of time to contemplate that he was actually losing everything that mattered to him, he made the decision to change. Lots and lots and lots of therapy later, and I’m told the difference is dramatic and the marriage stayed intact. From what I hear, the spouse in question is one of those people who you would actually suspect of being a saint embodied if you got to know them, so they had that going for them. In short, what Qadgop said, and with an ideal set of circumstances a significant change is possible.
Well, that may make her behavior somewhat more understandable.
But still, “I love you!” “You’re disgusting and I will never be attracted to you!” “I love you!” “You’re disgusting!”… um, I think she’s hurt you enough, whatever the reasons. Stay the hell away.
That actually sounds more like BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). These people tend to either love you or hate you, with nothing in between. If she self harms, I would definitely consider that diagnosis.
Disclaimer: I’m not a doctor, nor do I have any ability to diagnose (unlike, say my sister, a tech.) I’m just making suggestions about what she might want to be seen about.
MY father in-law is a textbook narcissist. He exhibits every symptom of it to the Nth degree. I’ve done a lot of research on this and all the info I’ve read says that such a level of it is not curable. Doctors, psychologists and psychiatrists have gone mad trying to deal with such people. Unfortunately choking the living shit out of them is not considered a valid treatment option. A pity, I say.
Only unhappy that her life is being aired to total strangers for an opinion about someone they know only through the eyes of a very hurt and some what angry lover. She wishes to remain private and feels her life is none of their business.