Seems like a waste of letters and time - what happened to good old ‘u up’?
Kids today think they’ve invented everything. Why, back in my day you’d go to a theater – balcony if it had one – and not watch the movie.
That’s because in your day, nobody wanted to “Victrola and chill”
Maybe it was “Wanna come over and hand-crank my Victrola?”
That is a good analogy Manda Jo. I couldn’t figure out a way to explain it.
But also, I think, getting in the mood is a complex process for a lot of women. I’d be more likely to want sex when I’m already cuddling on the couch vs. standing in the cold outside someone’s front door. Seduction is a pretty big necessity for me.
Yes. Beyond that, even, most straight women, in my experience, are a little reluctant to just come out and say they want to have sex. Some aspect of social ritual is still expected.
A while ago, a woman that I was in a couple of freethought groups called me up to go to a movie. I didn’t think much of it; I just thought she wanted someone to go with. We hung out for a while afterward. I picked up a little of the “wanna get close to you” vibe, but not much - and I’m pretty tone deaf about such things, so I kinda left it alone. Afterward, she texted me: “Should I have just said ‘Let’s fuck’?”
"I said CHILI. Netflix and chili. I worked really hard on this; this is my father’s recipe.
“Please, put your clothes back on!”
I’d love it if women could learn to be more forthright about such things. I think most women are over the archaic ‘‘good girls don’t’’ stereotype, but part of the issue is there is still an assumed risk with saying what you want. Women aren’t used to risking themselves for rejection, that’s normally a burden that falls upon men. We have no incentive to change the status quo.
I think I’m a little different than the average woman in this regard. Rejection is uncomfortable but I’ve always taken the risk, not because I am an Empowered Woman but because I am impatient as hell, and the feeling of unknowing is 1000x worse than being disappointed. To the best of my recollection, I have actively pursued every guy I ever dated or wanted to date* and since I like 'em shy and awkward, the burden has always been on me to move things to the next level.
*With that one exception. You know, the one you can’t even speak two words around because you are so beset by hormonal angst. It’s a miracle I could even breathe around that one.
I honestly think women come in two categories in that respect. Those that can get the message across without actually saying “lets fuck”, and those that expect you to read their minds.
Generally speaking I think your spot on here but as you go on to say rejection is still an issue. It’s no different with men though. I’m sure you’ve seen/heard of men who acted poorly once rejected. In that sense I think it’s a very individual trait and one that can’t be overly influenced by societal norms.
I don’t have Netflix. 
Me either, but I also don’t know or meet any women who would so much as consider romance with one such as myself, much less sex, so it balances out.
I don’t have Netflix either. I have to say “Chromecast and chill?”
There’s an interesting chapter in The Stuff of Thought about seduction and bribery. In both cases, you’re making an offer to another person where if it’s accepted, there’s a pretty good outcome, but if it’s not accepted, there’s some risk. With seduction, there’s the risk of a big old blow to the ego; with bribery, you’re talking jail time.
So we have similar strategies for both, Pinker argues: the indirect, ambiguous offer. If I ask the police officer, “Is there any alternative to a ticket?” [note: I’ve never bribed anyone and have no idea if this is the sort of language used], the cop can understand my offer but pretend not to, and reject it without arresting me: “No sir, I need to write the ticket, and I’m doing that now.” If I ask a woman, “Hey, wanna come watch a movie at my place?” she can understand my offer but pretend not to, and reject it without making it personal: “No, I’m not really into movies” or whatever.
The indirect offer allows a low-risk, indirect rejection. Sure, it also muddies the waters and makes it difficult to engage in clear, unambiguous communication; but often folks think it’s worth it to get the possibility of a lower-risk rejection.
That’s definitely one way to look at it. However, I’ve always heard it as it allows a woman to go to someone’s place for sex, but still have a different reason for going there that she can tell people, including herself.
I would suggest, however, that this strategy only works because “wanna hang out tonight” does not normally mean “lets play XBox”. That’s what gives it the deniability factor in the first place - the fact that loads of people up and down the country are saying “wanna hang out” in a lot of different contexts.
If “wanna hang out” ever seriously came to mean “lets play XBox” to the extent that “Hey, wanna hang out, your place?”“Sorry, I don’t have an XBox” is a viable conversation that everybody involved understands perfectly, then Taylor will have to find a different form of words to make his request in. Because “wanna hang out” was never really an explicit request for XBox time, simply extremely obvious and transparent maneuvering to get into a position where XBox might happen.
The old “hey, come up for a cup of coffee?” thing is similar. I can text my friends “wanna come over for a cup of coffee” any day of the week and nobody thinks I’m asking them to come over and bone. It’s only an “everyone knows what THAT means!” situation if you’re in the right context - like being walked home from a party at 1am. Thus it’s still a useful, deniable, maneuvering phrase.
I can totally understand how “Netflix and chill” would work as a form of maneuvering. But if the phrase has progressed to the point where “hey, wanna Netflix and chill?” “Eww! I wouldn’t touch your dick if it was wrapped in thousand dollar bills.” is a viable conversation that everyone involved understands, then, yeah, you might as well come out and say “lets have sex”. OR employ some other phrase that’s actually still ambiguous for your deniable maneuvering needs.
In my opinion.
I’m not up on how single women are these days, but it would surprise me quite a bit if today’s millennial chicks needed to tell themselves anything other than, “I’m hoping to get laid tonight.” Twenty years ago she might have needed to tell herself her motives were pure as the driven snow, but we now live in a culture where women will read 50 Shades of Grey on the subway to work.
The fig leaf is still very necessary in some areas. There’s a radio show on a local station that does a thing they call the “second date update” where someone, usually a guy, will call in with a story of woe about how they didn’t get a second date. The DJs will call the person they dated and ask them why they didn’t get a second date, and if there was just a communication breakdown they’ll offer to pay for a second date if both parties are willing. Normally this is pretty harmless fun, but sometimes you get a dude hung out to dry because he thought everything was great and she was miserable and they air that conversation.
I don’t normally listen to it but the kids do and one day they left the radio on when they left for school and I heard the segment before leaving for work. There was a woman who was a co-worker of the guy and he had invited her over for a home-cooked meal and to hang out. Apparently he was a hoarder and the place was gross. She said if he cleaned it up she’d be willing to see him again, but even if they went out she’d want his place cleaned up because if it went well she’d want to go back to his place to get it on(not the exact words, but something very close, blunt). The on-air talent reacted very negatively, to the point of withdrawing the offer to pay for the date, and even callers afterward were saying things like “she’s no lady.” Or “I don’t know where she’s from, but that ain’t how we do things round here.”
I found it frustrating, especially in the post-Weinstein era, to have a sex-positive woman treated like that. If we want women to take ownership of their sex drives and be clear about their desires and consent, which is an important part of removing the historical “man makes the move” culture that has contributed to unwanted advances, this is what we NEED, not what we should mock. So yes, there are women reading Fifty Shades of Grey on the subway, but there are also a lot of people judging them for doing so, especially in more conservative parts of the country.
Enjoy,
Steven
Amen to that.
How disappointing.
Oh boy, you listen to those ‘second date updates’ too? They used to occasionally feature them on the morning shows when I lived in Michigan and I listened to more than a few of them. They were usually pretty cringe-inducing and I don’t know why anyone ever thought they would be a good idea. Having a second date, or not, is the kind of personal decision that definitely sounds like it shouldn’t be broadcast all over the radio.