If I may interject ever so quietly -
Tested and proven impressively effective during recent Israeli conflict.
quietly leaves thread
Read the thread first. Already mentioned. Also irrelevant. The sheer volume of shells would defeat it easily. It’s not a system designed for such a massive barrage and, even if it were, it could not be deployed in Seoul anytime soon.
No, apparently it is to intimidate Kim Jong-un’s own people into taking him seriously.
Read the other threads here Iron Dome is Israel name for anti missile only good for short range and Israel still setting up more Iron Dome systems and Iron Dome for longer mid range missile.
Read the news today the US is in processes of setting up system like Iron Dome.It will take time and money .
And for country that has hundreds of rockets and missiles you need hundreds of anti-Iron Dome type system.
Has for nukes it is estimated that North Korea has some where 6 to 10 small nukes.
There no system in place to stop this yet.
Perhaps the best thing is for North Korea to invade the South. ROK and US Forces* fall back and let the DPRK outrun their dug-in emplacements. Then destroy in place any forces on the road while sweeping through the gun fields. Have airpower take out all military infrastructure. Disarm and send home any North Korean soldier who surrenders. Destroy any who do not. Move the DMZ outside of range of Seoul. Sit in the little blue building in Pan Mun Jom and see who shows up.
- Civilians go to ground and good luck. See ya in a few days. Hope ya make it.
Thanks, how thoughtful of you.
evacuate Seoul and see what NK does.
I hate it, I really do. But it looks like it might be the most low cost way out. And it relies on the North invading. Otherwise sit tight and let them implode. Then start to pick up the pieces. I wonder how many preppers there are between the Han river and the DMZ?
The question, as I understand it, is WHAT KIND of material - plutonium (their first 2) or uranium? Aside from the seismographs, there have been no traces of gasses or isotopes detected - even though they gave the US and China a couple of days notice, and one report I saw referred to a Japanese sniffer plane sent either at the time or within a very short time after - it picked up some Xe something - which is not indicative of the type.
Was this an attempt at a huge blast (the first 2 were of increasing tonnage) which fizzled, causing them to claim it was actually a test of a miniaturized bomb?
Was it an attempt to detonate a uranium (of which they have lots) device?
The other point being, the change of rhetoric from “we will attack you today” to “we are going to go back to get more stuff” was significant.
Now we have State saying the US will never accept a nuclear NK (big help) and Defense saying something about “real and clear” threat.
Here’s the biggie: were his words “clear and present”? I saw this as the first report - later ones changed it to “real and clear” or some such.
This is a biggie - “clear and present danger” is the legal justification for police to take out the actor.
I can’t believe the Secretary of Defense would use that expression in this situation - do have Cheney back? That is up there with W’s use of the word “crusade” to describe the US attack on a Muslim country.
Where do you propose the ten and a half million people go during this experiment?
While we’re kicking around military scenarios:
The little fat guy is getting his pic taken at all kinds of military bases - including artillery near the DMZ - not surprisingly, not only are the guns ancient and dusty - even the muzzle covers look 50 years old.
The point was - these guns are sitting under tin roofs with truly flimsy uprights - they are not even behind a wall. The only thing that looks like concrete is the floor.
If this is typical, why are those guns still there? Why hasn’t a fleet of cruise missiles hit those guns from launchers in Seoul? The travel time would be what? Can those detonate at altitude at a given location? Can they be fitted with a ground-clearing (fuel-air, other?) warhead?
I’m just waiting for NK to refuse to allow the SK’s in the industrial park to go home - taking civilians prisoner would seem close enough to a causus belli for current purposes
Because if SK or the US misses even one gun emplacement in that first volley, due to it being more well hidden, or a cruise missile failure, etc, then a decent size chunk of Seoul is flattened. There’s basically no way to be sure of getting all of them besides using strategic nukes to wipe out the majority of North Korea in one go, which would have deleterious effects on South Korea as well.
I was just mulling over this in the shower. I formulated a crazy plan where we could follow the subway tunnels of the number 4 line, since it goes south.
There isn’t much panic in Seoul at the moment. I think the most panicked I’ve seen people was after the sinking of the Chonan. A lot of our friends packed an emergency knapsack in case they had to get out quickly. But they were all foreigners. Koreans in general never seem to worry that NK might actually do something serious. Maybe they’re just all in denial.
Do Korean buildings have bomb shelters or safe rooms? Are there public bomb shelters? I guess the subways will do, like in London during the Blitz. Have the authorities issued instructions for emergencies?
And that’s just Seoul proper. If you count the suburbs there’s about 25 million people to move, more than 1/2 of all S. Koreans.
If you want a very, very tiny taste of what evacuating Seoul would be like, go there during Chuseok. The Korean Thanksgiving. A lot of Koreans like to go back to where their families originated from. A buddy of mine back in 1997 tried to travel from Osan Air Base during Chuseok. Osan to Highway 1 is about 5 miles. He gave up after 12 hours.
The idea is a volley of devices which destroy the gunners first - if the guns are damaged as well, then fine.
The nice thing about fuel-air is that it goes pretty much anywhere there is air - unless you are in a real, live, bomb-proof shelter, (the DMZ gunners don’t get million-dollar housing) you are going to get your lungs burned - and you’ll die.
The added advantage is that it would also, maybe, detonate any HE shells sitting around - like stacked next to the gun. Here is a situation in which you WANT them to get ready to fire.
Once the gunners are dead, keeping replacements out may or may not be easy - if they are clever enough, they will have an underground approach to the heaviest section.
How many tunnels does the south have under the DMZ? How many troops could be pre-positioned (behind a blast-proof door)?
Quite possibly open fire, since that would mean the removal of their hostages, and likely the prelude to their destruction.
We do have air raid drills, occasionally, but no one pays attention to them anymore. during an air raid you’re supposed to find the nearest subway station and go underground (unless the nearest station is above ground, in which case you’re fucked). The government haven’t issued instructions about anything.
I cannot imagine the panic that would happen if Seoul were to be evacuated. Like an above poster mentioned, during Chusok and Lunar New Year there is a mass exodus to the countryside and it is pure chaos as it is. It takes forever to get anywhere. My only consolation is that my SO has a motorbike, which would give us more flexibility than a car, perhaps.
But, like I said, most Seoulites aren’t even considering the possibility that something like that would happen. I suppose they figure that if NK attacks Seoul is fucked anyway, so there’s no point in worrying about it.
There was no change in rhetoric. They continue to threaten to attack the U.S. and their other enemies, and they’ve continued to threaten to attack the U.S. and take other belligerent steps. Those steps now include resuming enrichment.
This couldn’t be any more wrong. The phrase “clear and present danger” comes from a 90-year-old Supreme Court decision about Congress’ ability to restrict free speech. It has absolutely nothing to do with the police or with any legal justification for war, not that those two things are related to each other. It also hasn’t been part of the standard in restricting speech for decades and decades. It’s just a widely known phrase- partly because it was the name of a Tom Clancy book/Harrison Ford movie and because schools don’t teach a lot of nuance regarding Supreme Court cases.
Falling back isn’t much of an option for a smaller nation like South Korea (short of involuntarily being pushed back) because you would be left with a rubble field instead of a country.