I was discussing religion with a semi-Fundamentalist co-worker the other day and she’s of the “Once Saved Always Saved” persuasion. Simply put, once you receive Christ as your Personal Lord and Savior™, you cannot go to hell even if you backslide (unless you specifically renounced Jesus later, she says).
This is not an unintelligent woman or even a particularly judgmental one- she knows I’m gay and that I’m an atheist and is generally okay with it even- but this belief has always floored me. I asked for its scriptural justification and of course she wasn’t sure. A googling comes up with wildly mixed results and many unreadable pages, but this is one of the better ones.
My questions for those far better read in religion than I am (and I’ll put it in GD since that’s where it may end up anyway):
1- What are the main scriptural justifications of this philosophy?
2- Is it fair to say that this IS true of Christian philosophy?
3- Is it true (as co-worker said) that Catholics have essentially the same belief in that all is forgiven/absolved with last rites so long as the person has been confirmed et al?
PS- I grew up in the Bible Belt but my parents were moderate Presbyterians and our church actually specifically preached against “Once Saved Always Saved”.
I’m certainly no scriptural expert, but I find it pretty hard to believe that you could, say, murder someone after being saved (in cold blood, no weaseling like you were doing it to protect your family or in wartime) and still think you were going to be all right with Jesus.
There are some churches that baptize with a little water on the head, and there are others that go for total immersion. If you were baptized in the first kind, and then you start going to the other kind of church, some of that persuasion will say you weren’t properly saved.
There’s a cute little stack of irreverent quips that come to mind. I’m not going there. It’s too early in a sincere discussion.
There are something like 38,000 Christian sects. Within them are parishes and pastors. Along with them are parishoners. We’re talking about millions of humans, each with a brain of his own. Some of them use their brains to try to interpret what they think religion is supposed to be. Many of those interpretations are peculiar, at best.
I’d really not worry about any sort of scriptural validation for whatever crazy theory you hear. Someone will trot one line out of the Bible which they will swear means that you should eat water moccasins for breakfast and someone else will use that exact same line to ‘prove’ that purple dresses are forbidden except on men over eighty years of age.
I would not consider the Catholic sacrament of “Last Rites” at all analagous to the concept of “once saved, always saved.” Catholics, after they are confirmed, have an obligation to try to remain in a state of grace (not having any mortal sins on your soul), which is acheived by having a good (valid) confession. To have a valid confession, one must confess the sins to a priest, be sincerely contrite, atone in whatever way the priest thinks is appropriate, and then he gives absolution. This sacrament may be taken at any time, and as often as necessary to maintain this state of grace.
Last Rites is supposed to include such a confession. If the dying person is not capable of making a confession, Last Rites will still be given, but I believe that absolution of any mortal sins is given based on the assumption that there is contrition on the part of the person who is receiving the sacrament (which would generally mean that there had been intention to have a good confession, but that the person was prevented from making one, perhaps by the illness).
So, it’s not true that if you live 50 years racking up mortal sins, have no contrition for them, and get the Last Rites right before you croak, that you are OK with God. When a person is confirmed, they are supposed to have made a committment to live a Christian life. I am not sure it would sit to well with God if the attitude is, “well, now I’m safe, as long as I make sure I have the Last Rites before I die.”
I wouldn’t say the idea that you can’t go to hell even if you backslide after being saved is all that common. In fact, the more common attitude among Fundamentalists I’ve known was closer to the Amish rumspringa- get all of your sinning (drinking, dancing, gambling, whatever) out of your system and then get baptized when you’re ready to give it up.