Something was mentioned once and not picked up on. The molested child can feel pleasure from the act. That is usually the child’s first “sexual experience” and it seems that in some cases (not all) that is “imprinted” on the child to the extent that when the child later becomes a sexually active adult - he is attracted to, and acts on, children. I would guess, and it is a guess, that the child who was frequently, repeatedly abused, would be more strongly affected than a child who was molested only once.
Is that not the route by which an abused child becomes an abuser himself?
Or have I got it all wrong?
A young man I know is still blaming himself for being so “weak” that he “allowed” the abuse, when he was 9, by a neighbour who was 16. The abuse was never reported. The young man is often suicidal. It is guilt that plagues him and so far no one has convinced him that he has nothing to feel guilty about.
The OP raises some interesting points, and this is a valuable discussion.
I know of no evidence to support this hypothesis. Not that it’s wrong, mind, I just know of no evidence.
'Sides, wouldn’t it make more sense that a kid who was abused and felt pleasure from it would prefer people much *older *than himself as lovers when he was grown? (I actually do know a few women with “Daddy issues” who consistently chose older men as lovers, but I don’t know if that’s because they were sexually abused or not.)
It’s not sarcastic, I can post pictures if you want. I actually bit myself and I have a sore throat now, I’m punishing myself for being wrong and possible offending someone, I always do this, even if I mess up in GQ or accidentally give someone bad directions or make somebody feel bad by beating them in a game.
The thing is, I have a hard time visualizing any other “means” or “reasons” why an adult would prefer a child as a sex partner. I do know that some molesters are also sexually active with other adults - often are married and have children of their own, even abuse their own children or step-children. Not all child molesters are the same, so I suppose their “reasons” aren’t going to be the same. Some men like very young girls - but in some societies a 12 or 13 year old girl is of marriageable age.
Part of forcing a child is the fact that it’s a power trip in the crudest sense, and that may indeed be the primary attraction.
Can you visualize “means” or “reasons” why a man would prefer a man as a sex partner, or a woman a woman? Or why a person would prefer a fat person or skinny person or only persons of a specific race?
Sexual attraction is what it is and usually impossible to find a root cause of; the Freudian idea that it’s due to some incident in childhood or an overcontrolling mother is pretty thoroughly debunked. I don’t see why pedophilic attraction should be any different.
I don’t buy that. ** Most** adult persons prefer an adult person of the opposite sex - although the age of “adult” is somewhat variable, one would assume that an adult is one who has gone through puberty, the female menstruating, etc. Some adult persons prefer other adult persons of the same sex - and while I am sure there are arguments against it, I believe “gay” people tend to be born “gay”. Gender, besides, exists on a continuum, and the sex of a preferred partner may have something to do with gender identification in some instances. Sexual attractiveness does have some common, intercultural bases, as well, with the “idea” of male and female attractiveness centred around certain specifics of appearance, etc. Once a person is established in a relationship or habit, the “ideal” can change due to affection, etc. That’s not the issue here, though.
Why would a person offend one of the commonest taboos by prefering sex with a child? We are, I believe programmed by nature to be attracted to a “suitable” sex partner - in most cases that partner is meant to be our reproductive partner. What would interfere with that programming, not in the case of gay people, but in the case of pedophiles?
Pedophiles can “prefer” infants, for pete’s sake. There has to be some reason for that. Once begun, the behavior becomes a habit, or a preference, I guess, but why begin?
I think it must have something to do with experience. None of that “controlling mother” bs, that’s not what I mean. Months or years of sexual abuse?
Seriously. This was a pretty daring OP (regardless of which side anybody is on). I thought you were handling the debate pretty well, up until you kind of freaked out there.
Take a few breaths, get a nice cup of hot chocolate or something, give things some thought, and then come on back and state your case.
No one is trying bury you here.
Kevin Bacon and Kyra Sedgewick did a movie, The Woodsman, that explores the issue from the eyes of the offender. It’s pretty damn uncomfortable to watch, but it addresses the subject better than anything else I’ve ever seen.
I think they’re just wired differently. It is a compulsion. The offender knows he’s doing wrong and can’t stop himself in most cases. I don’t think people without a strong compulsion disorder can ever understand how uncontrollable it is. I think it’s pretty widely accepted that this is something that doesn’t get better, though with therapy, some offenders are able to function within the rules and within a strictly supervised environment, completely away from children.
I see nothing in your post that couldn’t - indeed wasn’t - applied to gay people 70 years ago.
Let me be clear: I believe that pedophilia is a sexual orientation. That doesn’t mean I think it’s okay to engage in pedophilic sexual relations - I DON’T. But I think it’s just as innate as homosexuality and that those who suffer it and don’t act on it deserve our sympathy, not our outrage. Those that act on it deserve our compassionate control; they deserve to be kept safe from situations where they have proven they don’t have the self-control to not harm others. Unfortunately, in my opinion, the only place we currently have to do that is in jail or a mental hospital.
I guess you could say I feel about pedophilia the way some churches do about homosexuality - acting on it is sinful (because it is harmful), but the *attraction *to an unacceptable person is not the fault of the sinner.
(I don’t feel the same way about homosexuality because it’s between consenting adults; I don’t feel there is “harm” in a homosexual relationship the way I feel there is in an adult/child relationship. Whether this harm is due to the sex or the culture is a moot point, as we see here.)
Oh, that was a good movie. Disturbing, but really great. I second that.
I think this was touched on earlier, but what about the reactions of people who grew up in a time when sex abuse was hushed up or not talked about? Or people who kept their sexual abuse hidden their entire lives (and therefore were not told that they were victims) and yet still felt ashamed or violated? That’s a not uncommon reaction, isn’t it?
I think society screams it loud and clear enough that it doesn’t matter if you’re not told directly…the stigma is there. There’s no escaping it in our society.
It might be an innate compulsion, the person might be born that way. But I tend to doubt it, quite frankly. I truly do not believe that a person can be “wired” by nature to prefer sex with a 6 month old baby. Perhaps some are, I can’t know. But I do know that I have never heard of a child molester who was not molested himself as a child.
I’m not for one second saying that all molested children grow up to molest other children. Nor do all beaten children grow up to beat children. But why do some, and not others? Is that where the “wiring” comes in?
While it is true that homosexuality has often been regarded as a perversion or abnormality, there have been societies where that was not so. It has always been “normal” human behavior, even when it was condemned. Even when it IS condemned.
Has pedophilia ever been accepted as “normal”? Is it “normal”? Are a certain number of human beings born that way? Where is the cutoff, then? At what age does a “too young” ideal become “the usual ideal”?
I understand, I think, what a compulsion is. But are compulsions innate, or learned?
I don’t think the experts know. I did see something once (not sure if it was a movie or documentary) and the self-loathing among the offenders is ever-present. I know there are guys like Polly Klaas’s offender who are unrepentant bastards, but for the most part, these guys are utterly destroyed in knowing what they are. I couldn’t help but feel bad for them. They are forever misfits in this world. Unlike homosexuality, which is becoming more acceptable both to the individuals and to society, I don’t believe a single one of these guys had a shred of self-respect. They don’t want to be who they are, but they cannot turn off the feelings.
Well, I am extremely uncomfortable with any comparison that brings homosexuality into the discussion. While it HAS been regarded with equal revulsion, as I said above that was not always so. Whereas I think that pretty well every culture on Earth regards pedophilia with revulsion, I suppose within the limits of a cultural notion of what an “adult” is.
Of course, the thing is, that there are homosexual pedophiles, too. Not all pedophile men prefer girl children. There was an infamous serial killer here in BC who sexually molested and then murdered both boys and girls. Even in his exceptional person, he was exceptional in harming both boys and girls.
I agree that pedophiles are to be pitied. Certainly any of them who realize/understand how monstrous their behavior is, at any rate. And those who do not agonize are probably psychopaths all of whose behaviors are always at odds with what we find acceptable.
I agree that those who don’t act on their urges to molest children deserve out sympathy and help. Unfortunately, it’s very difficult for anyone to admit to feeling that way.
I do not, however, believe that it’s a sexuality like any other. Otherwise, you could say that people who rape are doing it because that’s their sexuality. A sexuality where the other person cannot make informed consent is not a sexuality - it’s a disorder that happens to have sexual expressions.
Both self-reports and longitudinal research (that is, following children who have been sexually abused as they grow up) have found no correlation between abuse as a child and abusing as a grown up. The “cycle of abuse” is almost entirely discredited as a theory explaining the creation of pedophilic tendencies, and has been for over 10 years.
The first page of the US Government Accountability Office’s report* reads:
bolding mine
(although their title still reads “Research Inconclusive”, which I find interesting in a conspiracy theory sort of way)
No, I’m sorry, you’re just wrong here.
Yes, adult men having sex with pre-pubescent children has been considered normal and even expected in some cultures (for many centuries in many of the city states of Greece, for example). I don’t know if the same has widely been true of adult women having sex with pre-pubescents.
*E L Rezmovic ; D Sloane ; D Alexander ; B Seltser ; T Jessor (1996). “Cycle of Sexual Abuse: Research Inconclusive About Whether Child Victims Become Adult Abusers” (PDF). US Government Accountability Office General Government Division United States. http://www.gao.gov/archive/1996/gg96178.pdf.
Why? Sexual orientation, as I understand it, is who you’re attracted to, not how you express that. “Dominant” and “submissive” are not sexual orientations, though they may be sexual identities.
If a rapist is sexually attracted to females and rapes them, he’s heterosexual and a rapist.
I suppose one could argue that we should create a new term, so that “pedosexual” is a person who is sexually attracted to children and “pedophile” can become, “a person who has sex with children.” But for now, it means both.
(Bolding mine) I don’t think we can lump “that” guy in with other paedophiles. Most paedophiles are not murderers. They are acting on an uncontrollable desire, but don’t intend harm (and that’s not to say they aren’t causing harm…just that it is a by-product of their obsession).
What about before our society ever really talked about those things? Didn’t victims of sexual abuse feel there was something wrong even in the days when sex in general was just not talked about?