It’s funny to see women complaining about being forced to “dumb themselves down” so that the guys don’t feel insecure, while women are the first to believe in woo-woo crap like astrology, numerology, homeopathy,…
I can’t count the times when, during a date or some online chat, I’ve been asked for my date of birth. Even by seemingly intelligent, college-educated women.
Frankly, I’d like one or two instances where women here have dumbed themselves down.
Why is the dating scene “unfair”? Tedious, I can understand, but why do so many people describe it as “unfair”? I never really thought about it that way.
I know I’m only one woman, but a man like that certainly stands a chance with me! I’m most attracted to quiet, intelligent, somewhat scruffy-looking men. So where are they?
Wow. The misogyny, it burns! Tell me, do you also meet a lot of women who buy Moster cables, take “herbal viagra,” believe they can tell inaudible differences between sound systems or buy those little packs of “energy now” supplements you find at 7-11s? There is man-woo as well.
As for me, yeah, I’ve dumbed myself down. Mostly by giggling like an idiot, holding back some of my wittier comments, and underplaying my achievements (“Oh, you can speak Mandarin?” he asks “Just enough to order dinner, teehee.”) I haven’t done any formal experiments or anything, but it does seem to be effective at the early stages.
I’ve never thought it unfair. Of course, I’ve gotten exactly what I’ve wanted from it, so that is probably coloring my opinion.
For the OP, it strikes me as pretty shallow and possibly misdirected for a lot of people. Yes, there are people who are simply interested in sex and nothing else. But there are also people for whom sex and nothing else will feel empty eventually. It seems the PUA ideal pushes men to view sex as a proxy for connection. That will work for some. For others, that will leave them feeling more alone and disconnected than ever.
People need to assess what they actually need and find some way to try to get that rather than accepting what some internet person says they actually need. And yes, I recognize the paradox of what I just said! 
How many dates have you gone on with men? I’m going to assume zero, right?
You have no idea how much crazy woo is out there in the male dating population because you don’t have to interact with it. But I assure you it’s there. I once went out with an astrologist who had an MBA from Georgia Tech.
Sorry, but you can bottle it. It can be faked. What you don’t seem to realize is that the ones who are faking it successfully are indistinguishable from the ones that aren’t faking it. Of course you notice the ones that aren’t pulling it off. But unless you ask the ones who’ve got it if they’re faking it or not, you won’t know. And they aren’t going to tell you.
An argument could be made that everybody is faking it, all the time, and nobody anywhere is born with it. You’ll never, ever be able to test that theory though.
See, as a woman, this is alien to me. I don’t take much trouble with my appearance beyond looking clean and presentable, and usually wearing clothes that make it clear I have a figure (I like to define the waist). I don’t play games or dumb myself down or try to appear vulnerable in order to make myself more attractive. I know many other women do, but I still don’t fully understand why. ‘Standing there’ and being totally myself (and I don’t have the most agreeable personality either) seems to be all I need to do for plenty of non-bum men to have interest in me. It seems infinitely harder for men to get some play - I’ve rejected all but two men who showed interest in me, after all.
You’re a slim 25 year old, right? What you have now generally doesn’t last forever. From 18 to maybe 25 I could just stand there and look cute and decent guys would come my way. And they didn’t have to be too decent, because it’s not like I was looking to get married or anything.
But as you get older you tastes/needs become more specific, men start dropping out of the dating arena, and a good chunk of the guys left are more interested in the new batch of 25 year olds than anything you have to offer. The game changes.
For example, dudes writing and buying books like The Game.
How’s that working out for you? Found the right man yet? I can see why this strategy would attact… well, idiots, but do you want to DATE idiots?
If a woman “dumbed down” I’d assume she was dumb, and wouldn’t want a second date. To be honest, I’ve always given preference to the smart ones, and I’m not anything unusual in this regard. A friend of mine was talking about his wife not two days ago and mentioned that one of the reasons he married her and none of his previous girlfriends was that she was the smartest.
beartato: Touche, sir!
Phoenix, AZ. I’ll PM you the address.
Well, last time I was single it lasted about five minutes, but I think I’m about to be single again so I’ll let you know.
It’s not so much acting dumb, as much as…I dunno, acting intellectually submissive? You can be intelligent, but make sure he always feels like he has the upper hand and don’t let anything you do threaten his own sense of intelligence. You don’t have to be stupid, you just don’t want to be sharper than him.
Actually, intelligence is a problem in my waning relationship right now. For whatever reason, I breeze through my school work. I’m a horrible planner and a bad organizer (which my SO is great at) but I can read quickly and write well. He gets very, very resentful that I have a lot of free time when he is stuck spending hours slaving away at school work. I don’t get it, since I think he is just as smart as I am but channels that differently. But it gets to him- he doesn’t want to talk about anything school related (which is a huge chunk of both our lives) and it’s a chunk of why this probably isn’t going to work.
Tending to the male ego is a lot of work. Guys do it for women, as well, but generally the things that women are insecure about (looks, etc.) are not things that men directly threaten them with.
even sven, try staying single longer then five minutes and waiting for someone who isn’t a fool.
There are plenty of men who won’t feel threatened by intelligence and will really quite like it. And then you won’t be playing foolish, deadend games.
It’s a tired cliche that smart women are intimidating to men, and I do think some women who make this claim often have other factors working against them that have nothing to do with there intellect… but I do think that guys in general gravitate more to women who are the most easy to impress and charm. And that tends to be inversely proportional to the woman’s achievement level.
In my experience, if a woman is very smart, confident, and accomplished (has a good career, owns her own place, multiple degrees, etc.), the number of men out there who find those qualities attractive is smaller than the number of men who are uncomfortable with these qualities. So if such a woman is trying to date, and is out there in the general population (not restricting herself to mensa meetups), she will probably have a hard time unless she downplays herself a little.
We all have free choice, though. I refuse to dumb myself down in any way, and furthermore, if I feel its necessary to do that with a guy I’m talking to, it means eventually I’ll lose interest in him, so I’m shooting myself in the foot by even entertaining the idea. This doesn’t mean I go around bragging about how smart and successful I am or dropping $10 words in conversation, but I don’t hide or minimize myself so the guy feels like he has the upperhand, either. Because I could care less about the number of men hitting on me. What matters is finding someone who I find attractive, and that goes hand-in-hand with finding someone who is attracted to me as I really am.
It’s hard but I believe it’s worth it.
Yeah, that’d be what happens if I thought with the brain in my head rather than other parts of my anatomy. I never claimed to be smart when it came to making good choices.
How is that misogynistic? Can you explain how any of his comments shows a hatred of women? Why is it that men can’t voice any gripes at all without the misogyny label being thrown around to silence them?
My wife never had to dumb herself down. She may not speak Mandarin but she is an entrepreneurial genius. This whole “women have to dumb themselves down” sounds a lot like sour grapes - you know, the same sour grapes that guys get called misogynists for… :rolleyes:
^^^ this. 100%.
Er, how nice for you? Seriously, as a slim 25 year old I did not have the menfolks baying at the door and I know for a fact that none of my friends did, either.
What’s the male:female ratio in your area?