Is there a Dog Show clique?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I went to my first dog show last weekend. I have a Papillon pup that I think, (after seeing the goods there) could at least compete, and would probably do well in the conformation competition. I’ve read everything I could set my eyes to and I know the breed standard.

I introduced myself to several people and looked around, but I hadn’t brought my dog. :smack:

All the people I met, save one or two, seemed very closed. Almost like they didn’t WANT to know you.

Is this a really closed group? My dog doesn’t come from a line of champions, but she conforms to the standard very well. Can she still compete? Would she get anywhere or is this a (human) popularity contest? I think she would do very well, I on the other hand, was never the most popular kid in school.

Does anyone have any experience with this crowd?
Can a dog that doesn’t come from a line of champions still win?
Any comments?

2

My SO of many years was into the show circuit, mostly with her poodles, many of whom she finished. She showed other breeds as well.

While I wasn’t really involved any more than I had to be - I’ve been to many, many shows and humped my share of crates, etc. - I was certainly exposed to that world.

And it is cliquish. Quite so. My own impression is that it would likely take enduring a bit of Siberia to get rolling. YMMV.

Good luck if you try it!

3

Getting close to people who show the same breed you do is very difficult, unless you have a dog that’s sure to lose in the ring. Then you’ll find your fellow competitors are very friendly and will keep encouraging you to show against their dogs. Once you’re actually up and showing, mingle with people who show everything but Papillons, and you’ll discover some genuinely warm and friendly human beings. The same logic holds true in almost every breed - greyhound people do not socialize with other greyhound people, but can be quite warm and fuzzy with shippet people. And so on, down the line. There are exceptions, of course, particularly amongst the rare breeds, where the overhwelming excitement of seeing someone, anyone, with the same breed overrides the natural competitive instinct.

You’ll find that the breed standard is not the almighty document the AKC tries to convince you it is. Take it from someone who used to show standard-sized greyhounds. Nine judges out of 10 looked at me like they’d never seen such a thing in their lives, and the tenth would beam beatificially the second we’d walk into the ring. It’s not strictly a popularity contest, and yes, a dog who doesn’t come from “a long line of champions” can still be competitive, but you’re facing an uphill battle.

Good luck!

4

And if you beat them they will hate you! Dog show people are a weird bunch. Rent a movie called Best in Show - it isn’t all that far from the truth. Honestly, some of them take it way too seriously. I got suckered into showing my dog and I try to just have fun with it - mainly by beating the uptight people and pissing them off. :smiley:
I don’t know much about Papillions, but look at what’s winning in the ring and that will give you an idea on whether your dog is a contender or not. Go to more then one show though because a few judges look less at the dog and more at the handler - sad but true. Also, in some breeds like Poodles, the dogs almost always have a professional handler on them. Check if Papillions are mostly owner handled - they probably are. This gives you a better chance then trying to go up against the pros.
If your dog came from a breeder, find out if he or she shows. If they do, ask if they will mentor you. If you have handling classes in your area they would be a good place to start too.
Lastly, I’ll be in Secaucas, NJ at The Meadowlands on February 8-9 showing my Shiba. I’ll talk to anyone so stop on by if you’re around those parts!

5

You might find some interesting information and/or mentoring contacts on a papillon list. Yahoo groups lists several. We have two pet-quality dogs, and wouldn’t want to show them even if they were unaltered, but we do subscribe to the whippet list which occasionally blows up in a strange frenzy of insanity and oddness. Like our goofy dogs.
Good luck!

6

Cliquish? God yes. Terribly so. The comments made by posters above are very true. Some of us show conformation for fun - some are just totally DRIVEN to win and will really backstab other competitors to make themselves feel better, I swear.

You more than likely went to an AKC show, right? AKC shows have a LOT of professional handlers - those are people that breeders or really competitive people hand their dogs over to for showing. Those people are inapproachable, trust me. They’re there to win, because they make more money as the dog places in competition. This is particularily true of toy breeds, like the papillon.

All the pros I met in CKC and AKC shows are standoffish, won’t give you time of day, and sometimes will show really crappy showmanship too. MEH!

My advice? Find a UKC show. You can register your papillon with UKC (send in its AKC papers as proof of its lineage, etc.) and show with them. The admosphere is a lot more relaxed, and, best of all: ALL THE DOGS MUST BE HANDLED BY THEIR OWNERS OR IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBERS OF THE OWNER. This means: NO professionals.

Yes, owner-handled dogs can get their championships and do really well. I’ve put a number of CH’s on my dogs over the years, and on other people’s dogs (people who were friends and too scared of the ring!) Sometimes we’d go in and realise we were the only ones in there who weren’t professionals! Even the judges knew the pros by their first names, which made me wonder about the fairness of it all… until one day, my awkward puppy took a BOB over two professionally handled Specials (dogs who are already champions and competing for BOB and group placings)… and we went on to a Puppy Group 2.

So. It can be done :slight_smile: Find yourself a mentor - a breeder who does conformation BUT who also does other things with his/her dogs. I find breeders who focus totally on conformation are impossible to work with in or near the showring!

Also good is taking a conformation class. You’ll meet other people like you who are learning the ropes, and it’s nice to all hang out together at shows!

Good luck… showing can be a LOT of fun. I really would try UKC if I were you - it’s a looooot more fun.

With Aussies, we’re lucky, we have ASCA which has a loooong standing conformation program… and herding… and obedience… so it’s not rare that you’ll see a dog fresh off the sheep be put in the showring… :wink:

E.

7

Not everyone is like this. Honest! Well… maybe I am the only friendly one. :wink:
My first show experience was a huge AKC warmup show right before Westminster - and yeah, there were some rude people there. I happened to be with a big name breeder and it was amazing to watch people sucking up to her. These same people would then say the nastiest things behind her back - very two-faced. These are the kind of people who would throw you under a bus if they thought it would win them a 50 cent strip of ribbon.
They are SO fun to beat though!

8

Hee hee Kiger!

You’re right - not everyone is like that! I know I’m not. I’ve been handling dogs since my junior handling years… and I always like to help out those who are new, even in my breed. I recognise my dogs’ faults, and as you said, come on, it’s a 50cent piece of ribbon :wink:

Some people will be all nice to you and then turn around and tell everyone your dog should practically be disqualified. Meanwhile, they’ve been tattooing their golden’s nose black to cover up a flaw, or chalking up their sheltie’s mane to the point where you can’t run your hands over it without noticing…

Then, there are the people who are really sweet, and help you out in the ring when your puppy is being a total ass and refusing to stack properly… or who remind you to follow them as the group goes 'round… or who make sure you’re ready before they saunter off… OR who give you good practical advice on getting better results in the ring.

There’s nothing quite as satisfying as defeating people you KNOW were badmouthing the animal you’re handling. Especially if you go on to win group or place in group :smiley:

There’s also something to be said about your “filler dog” (a dog that should lose to the others, but is brought and shown mostly to give the other dogs points) winning its class and going Winners Dog, and Best of Winners :wink:

About breed standards ASCA and AKC use the same standard, which the club produced a few years back. Dogs who win breed in AKC are very different than those who usually win in ASCA shows. AKC-shown aussies usually have all their whiskers trimmed, have a LOT of coat, and are very big boned. Lots and lots and LOTS of hair and mass. ASCA shows prize assembly and movement over coat. Most of the judges know the breed well, and judge for function as well as looks. My long-legged, terribly agile but slighter-framed aussie does very well with ASCA, but doesn’t have enough coat or mass for AKC. And this is the SAME STANDARD. You just NEVER know how it will be interpreted.

Aaaanyway…

Gimme obedience, agility and trackin’ any day!

9

I’ve been to three dog shows with mixed results. While I’m on many dog lists for the breeds that I’m interested in (Dobies, Pharoahs and Ibizans), I also want to chat with some breeders face-to-face to get a feel of them and their dogs.

The first show was disappointing for me. None of the Dobie people were very friendly when approached. Since I’m a shy gal, I was quite discouraged.

I went up to Spokane for the second show and had a better time. I chatted with a Pharoah owner/handler for quite a while about her breed. It took her a bit to warm up to me but after she realized I had done my research and wasn’t just looking for a “kewl” dog she was quite forthcoming and also gave me her contact info in case I had more questions. Again, the Dobie people were aloof.

At the last show I went to, a Dobie handler took a few minutes to chat with me and also introduced me to some locals who were quite friendly and offered to help me with any future inquiries.

So as you can see, persistance is key. Eventually you will find people willing to spend a few minutes chatting with you. I think it really helps if you let it be known that you’ve done your research beforehand as well.

Belonging to some mailing lists will also help. You should be able to find locals that will take the time to offer guidance. I know that when I plan on going to the next Portland show, I will ask on my lists beforehand if anyone will be able to take the time for a ringside chat.

Most dog shows only allowed entered dogs into their shows. Make sure you check the rules if you think of bringing your pup next time.

If you decide that conformation isn’t for you, remember there are a lot of other fun activites for you and your Papi such as agility, obedience, flyball etc.

And I’d still love to see a Schutzhund III Papillon!

10

Dog shows are competitive events, not social ones, so yes, those who you directly compete against aren’t really likely to become your best buds. And who wins depends a lot on what the judge’s preference is that month. It’s all very subjective.

If you’d like to read about a year in the life of a breeder/owner who shows her dogs, get “Dog Eat Dog: A Very Human Book About Dogs and Dog Shows”
by Jane and Michael Stern. It’s a very entertaining and easy to read book which sheds quite a bit of light on the world of the show ring. Look for the part about what happens when the breeder sells a dog to the boxer Mike Tyson and then decides it’s not being cared for properly …

11

My former SO, mentioned above, was a professional breeder and handler, so I got to see a lot of winners as well as a lot of cheaters.

Hair dye was common, as were “wigs.” They all joked about it, as a lot of the show is hair.

While I never had personal experience with one, I’d heard tales of prosthetic testicles to allow a monorchid to compete.

One dodge I did watch was seeing a Chow, with white spots on his tongue (by spec, they’re supposed to have black tongues), get a treat of a lick of grape Kool-Aid powder just before going into the ring (he won).