Is "thinking" the problem?

In My Humble Opinion
1

Approaching 40 years old, I’ve been thinking a lot recently about death and dying and other such matters. To me, death is the ultimate problem.

When I say “problem”, I mean, it is the thing that causes me the most anxiety.

However, when I really contemplate the issue, it’s not actually death that troubles me so much as THINKING about it. If one were able to not think about it, when the end comes, it would just be the next step, rather than a problem in itself.

If one were able to stop one’s internal dialogue (the ceaseless talking we do in our heads - to use a phrase from Don Juan in Carlos Castaneda’s books) then there wouldn’t be any problem.

By extension, aren’t ALL problems the result of over-thinking the matter?

I’m not of course saying that we shouldn’t think at all… that would be counter-productive. Thinking obviously has its place… just like eating, sleeping, and other normal human actions. I’m talking about anxiety-producing thoughts that lessen the quality of one’s life.

What ways are there to quell this mental chatter that seems to be the root anxiety?

What do you think?

-NobleBaron

2

It depends. A lot of problems can be caused by under-thinking.

I don’t believe it’s possible to think too much in total, just perhaps unproductive to channel all of that thinking into one object of concern. The solution, IMO, is not to try to think less, but to think more diversely - find some more things to enjoy thinking about and use this to enrich your life.

3

Have you considered meditation?

4

I think that (1) “problems” are things that have solutions and therefore “death” isn’t a “problem,” because there’s no solution to “death,” and (2) I think the “problem” you’re describing is anxiety which you are fostering by “over-thinking,” which I would describe as “obsessing.” When obsessive thoughts become so intrusive that they affect your day-to-day functioning and the enjoyment you get from life, you need to consider getting professional help. I’m not saying you’re there yet, but you should keep that in mind. Obsessing over thoughts of death is a common symptom of several mental illnesses, many of which respond very well to treatment.

5

I think that’s rather a narrow definition of those two terms, or at least the term ‘solution’ - solutions don’t necessarily have to result in the eradication of the ‘problem’ - a rather trite example of this: a pearl is an oyster’s solution to the problem of an irritant particle such as a parasite or grain of grit - the solution doesn’t eradicate the problem, it merely packages it in a way that prevents it being an irritant.

6

I respect your opinion, Mangetout, and would be more concerned with providing a better definition if this were GQ. The OP solicited opinion, and that’s what I gave.

7

Fair enough. It was a bit of a pointless nitpick anyway - I think your post was a good and useful one.

8

Not necessarily thinking, but mulling.

It’s good to think about things. But if you find yourself thinking the same thoughts over and over again without arriving at any new or valuable insights, and you find yourself becoming miserable and anxious because of these thoughts, then you are no longer thinking. You are torturing yourself and you need to find a way to move on.

9

Q: Thinking is…

a) just going over the same ground, time and time again.

b) evaluating new information in order to reach new, more enlightened conclusions.

Isn’t doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results likely to make people’s eyebrows float?

Scientists have extended life—by decades!—by preventing diseases, promoting healthy living conditions and lifestyles, yatta-yatta, but, ipso facto, they’ve not found new info on how to cheat that Grim Reaper fella.

“Accentuating the positive, eliminating the negative and not messing with Mr. In-between,” has shown to be the best M.O. for modern wo/mankind, at least in many musicals of the 40s and 50s. Your mileage may vary…I guess.

Maybe you got some bad info along the line.

Have you considered that death just might be a picnic where we get to eat all our favorite foods without ill effects while watching those who wronged us get any punishment we feel just and entertaining?

I

All the funerals I went to as a kid, (I’m 60, Italian and ex-Catholic.), were scenes out of a tragic opera: Much wailing and horror. This isn’t healthy for living things as far as I’m concerned as it leads to a life filled with dread and sorrow…and what’s up w’ that?

Isn’t it healthier to celebrate the accomplishments of the deceased and celebrate the time we shared with him/her, rather than beat ourselves up over what may be the beginning of a whole new and better way of existing?

(Not to say we won’t miss some people terribly, and grieving seems to be part of the game, along with getting past it at some point, as our loved ones would want us to. Seems to me anyway.)

If there’s no continuation of Life, well, you gave it your best shot, all things considered, and eventually we’ll all be forgotten, good or bad, so c’est la vie. Nice try. We have some lovely parting gifts off stage—NOT!

If there *is *a continuation of Life after death, then we’ll make our best decsions then, according to the rules, as we did when we were born on this rock.

I won’t attempt to address religion except to say that a) God is merciful, right? So what’s to worry about? And b) there’s still time to “pad your cushion” regardless of what you believe. So go live a ‘good’ life as you see it, and have confidence that you’ll be above the curve when you get to wherever you’re going.

I looked over a number of philosophies and I’ve decided to live by Pascal’s Wager . I pick the best parts of several philosophical points of views, and hope for the best.

One thing I’ve learned—finally!—is that when I can’t make a decision, it simply means that I don’t’ have enough information. Instead of chewing on the same old bone, you might consider finding some new ones.

10

Thinking can definitely be a problem if it causes you anxiety. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) is a type of therapy which works on changing your way of thinking in order to help you feel and live better.

If your thoughts are bothering you, and it sounds like they are, you might want to read a little about CBT. There are therapists who specialize in helping you to use CBT to redirect your thoughts, and there are also a number of self-help books available.

Simple CBT exercises can help to “quell the mental chatter” and reduce anxiety.

11

The old adage “Don’t waste your time worrying about things you can’t control.” is a good one to live by. Often times easier said than done. I’m as guilty as anyone about obsessing, over-thinking, worrying about things that I have no control over. But sooner or later you have to shake it off, realize it’s out of your hands, and get on with your life.

12

I’ve posted it before, I’ll post it again.

"I didn’t get where I am today by thinking!
My father caught me thinking once. He said “CJ”
(we were never close), “He said
CJ, thinking doesn’t get the washing up done!”

CJ, The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin

Or on another tack;

*Penetration under the bed.
He loses his property and his ax.
Perseverance brings misfortune.

I Ching*, Hexagram 57: Penetration, Nine at the top.

What that basically means is that there comes a point at which, by endlessly contemplating and thinking about something, we lose our way and cease to be productive. We start to experience real losses and lose the ability to defend ourselves because we have lost our ability to make a decision and take action.
So with anything, what you really need to hold to as an underlying philosophy on these things is the line between contemplation and choices vs. the line between action and inaction. If your thinking prevents action, then you’re overthinking it.
On the OP problem of Death.

No amount of thinking or action will change this. Everything dies. Period.

Every
THING
dies.

Even stars, even (potentially) protons.
The entire Universe itself will eventually die.

To quote another line;

In the light of the setting sun,
Men either beat the pot and sing
Or loudly bewail the approach of old age.
Misfortune.

Hexagram 30: The Clinging (Fire, Clarity), Nine in the third place.

Again, there is nothing that you can do to change this. By spending all of your time thinking about it, you simply depress yourself without gain. Enjoy the time that you have, enjoy the time that you have been given.

13

No, some problems are the result of inadequate resources, limited ability, ill health, and unpleasant people.

Say, you have a boss who is making your life miserable?
You can’t just leave the unpleasant situation because you still have to pay the mortgage/rent; you’re having trouble finding another job because your training is in a very narrow field, and you can’t commute 50 miles to a better job because you have … I don’t know, a slipped disc.

14

Mmmm…a Snuff Picnic…my favourite…

15

ditto, also there’s a new CBT book out called Overcoming Depression One Step at a Time, that has some specific ideas on this.

16

There are people there who don’t worry about stuff very much at all. They tend to get fired from their jobs a lot. And to have bad credit. And to get evicted from their apartments. And to get in trouble for not paying child support.

On the plus side, these sorts of bad outcomes phase this sort of person a lot less than a more obsessive person.

17

Death is a reasonable thing to devote some contemplative time, especially if it strikes you as a problem. When do you wish to die? Obviously people often die at times not of their own choosing, but it still helps, I think, if you assume you won’t be one of those and will be able to keep your appointment. And you’re allowed to change your mind and reschedule. Do you wish to supplant Jeanne Calment in the Guinness Book of World Records? Rather just live to be 100? Pick an age.

18

If by “problem” you mean something that is bothering you, successfully ignoring it makes it not a problem. But, now “Successfully” has to include not letting it bother you unconsciously or leak out into some other form via some psychological mechanism, and also not actually causing other things to go wrong that are harder to ignore. So, if you are afraid you have some terrible disease, ignoring it may build up some kind of stress that makes you vaguely irritable, or may allow the disease to proceed past the easily treatable stage so that it pains or limits (or kills) you in ways you can’t ignore.

Lots of us go through a midlife crisis characterized by the awareness of death’s approaching, typically around the age of 40 or so. My midlife crisis was the most emotionally painful period of my life, even though the objective features of my life were basically all fine. I could feel myself slowly dying, which is very different from the intellectual awareness that we are all mortal. But it passed, leaving me different, wounded in a way, but still in good humor and enjoying and making the most of life.

19

Wow, excellent and helpful replies, people.

Just for the record, I don’t particularly obssess over the notion of my own personal death. When I say it’s the thing that causes me the most anxiety, I mean of all the things that I am anxious about, death rates the highest. I am generally not an overly-anxious person.

To use another concept from Carlos Castaneda’s Don Juan character, I try to use “death as an advisor”. In other words, if I’m feeling particularly lazy or unmotivated, I conjure an image of death, old friend, and get my a$$ moving. It works, most of the time. Other times I simply accept that I am feeling lazy and enjoy it… again, most of the time. Occasionally I get a little depressed at my lack of motivation.

Meditation definitely helps in keeping focus and accepting things “as they are.” I have been meditating on an off for about fourteen years (I’m 37 now) and, anecdotally, I can say for certain that the happiest, calmest and most focused times of my life have been when I have been consistently meditating daily for periods of months at a time.

I have recently been reading about “Morita Therapy”, which is intriguing:

From Wikipedia:

"Morita Therapy directs one’s attention receptively to what reality brings in each moment. Simple acceptance of what is allows for active responding to what needs doing. Most therapies strive to reduce symptoms. Morita therapy, however, aims at building character to enable one to take action responsively in life regardless of symptoms, natural fears, and wishes. Character is determined by behavior, by what one does. Dogmatic patterns of collapse are replaced with the flexibility to call upon courage and empowerment. Decisions become grounded in purpose rather than influenced by the fluid flow of feelings.

In Morita Therapy, character is developed by cultivating mindfulness, knowing what is controllable and what is not controllable, and seeing what is so without attachment to expectations. Knowing what one is doing, knowing what the situation is requiring, and knowing the relationship between the two are quintessential to self-validation, effective living, and personal fulfillment. Character is developed as one moves from being feeling-centered to being purpose-centered. A feeling-centered person attends to feelings to such an extent that the concern for self-protection reigns over decisions and perceptions. Given the human condition, change, pain, and pleasure are natural experiences. Indeed, emotions are a rich type of experience and a valuable source of information. Feelings are acknowledged even when what is to be done requires not acting on them. Constructive action is no longer put on hold in order to process or cope with symptoms or feelings. The individual can focus on the full scope of the present moment as the guide for determining what needs to be done."

The other part of this, as Napier has suggested, is that there may also be unconscious component to the anxiety. In this case, simply learning to “not think” or “stopping the internal dialogue” would presumably leave one open vague feelings of unease, anxiety or distress of some type.

Do the symptoms of anxiety only follow thinking; in other words, does only thought produce anxiety? What about, for instance, when a grenade goes off close by? Doesn’t the flight mechanism kick in - increased pulse; rapid breathing; etc. before fearful thoughts manifest?

Thanks again.

-NobleBaron

20

>Do the symptoms of anxiety only follow thinking…

I think not. There are lots of anecdotes of symptoms of anxiety arising from causes the sufferer was not conscious of, and therefore had no conscious thoughts about.
Unless, of course, you define “thinking” to include the mental processes that you aren’t aware of. Does it count as “thinking” if you couldn’t have listed it if you tried to list your thoughts?
I take the use of “thinking” in this thread to include only the things we’re aware of, in that internal dialog we can imagine hearing or narrating. So, in this sense, no, aixieties aren’t limited to these sources, according to some of my own experiences and many I’ve heard and read of.