In the “old” days (not all that long ago, in reality), black college quarterbacks were OFTEN turned into defensive backs or receivers in the NFL. Even now, wishbone/option quarterbacks who are great athletes but not great passers often get moved to other positions.
More recently, Matt Jones was a quarterback at Arkansas, but was turned into a receiver by the Jacksonville Jaguars.
A radio host I listen to said to enjoy RG3 while we have him because he won’t be around for very long. Option quaterbacks get the shit kicked out of them in the NFL. They can be effective in their early 20s. But they are done well before they hit 30. NFL coaches don’t change their game plan to bring in running quarterbacks because they are too conservatives. Its because they know it doesn’t work in the long run. Even though I’m a Giants fan I hope RG3 can adjust his game and stick around. I like him. I think he has the talent to last. But if he keeps running like he is in a couple of years we’ll be talking about him like Nameth at the end of his career.
Even though I think Tebow stinks even I would have been behind bringing him in by the end of the season. At that point it couldn’t hurt and it would have made the games interesting at least. It really wasn’t an option. But I don’t know how well reported it was out of the NYC area that Tebow was hurt during most of the season. He couldn’t throw at all. One game he was brought in for a few plays and the only pass he threw, he threw with his right hand.
This is complete nonsense. San Francisco is in the Super Bowl playing a lot of read-option. Washington made the playoffs with it, and Carolina uses it as well. It’s just that RGIII, Can Newton and Colin Kapernick are much faster than Tebow, and much, much better passers.
Tebow’s game is already being played in the NFL, just by much better players.
What other really need a QB this year as a starter or credible backup? Maybe this will be easier to address after the draft, but I think everyone agrees the Jets are going to release Tebow and a trade is unlikely. I was going to suggest Oakland because things are not going so well without Palmer, but might they just stick with Pryor.
An “old days” example was Marlin Briscoe. He’d played quarterback in college, but the Broncos had intended to use him as a defensive back in his rookie year. He got a chance to play quarterback for Denver due to the guys ahead of him either getting injured or stinking, and played QB for the rest of that year…but then played the rest of his career at wide receiver for various teams.
More recently, Anwaan Randle El played quarterback for Indiana University (and won the “Silver Football” award as the Big Ten’s MVP), but was switched to wide receiver / kick returner when he was drafted by the Steelers.
At least two Nebraska option QBs also switched positions: Scott Frost mostly played defensive back in the NFL. A few teams tried to convert Eric Crouch to wideout or DB, but he never caught on in the NFL. I don’t think he ever played a down in a regular season game.
Based on what I can see, it doesn’t look like it. He played practically everywhere else (NFL Europe, CFL, UFL, etc.)
You can say that about a whole lot of players who are considered legitimate options at their respective positions.
Anyway, my point was that Ryan hitched his wagon to Sanchez, and marginalized Tebow early in the season. Once the need/option to switch came up, if he did switch to Tebow, and the team had success, he would be crucified for the decision to go with Sanchez over Tebow. Since the playoffs were out of the question anyway, the safe choice for Ryan was going 3rd string, especially since Tebow was injured for part of the time.
As for Tebow being dropped in favor of Manning, the Jets would have dropped Sanchez just as fast, if Manning had been willing to sign with them. Frankly, there are probably 16 teams who would have been thrilled to swap their current QB for Manning, absent contract issues. Many of the remaining teams would keep their QB more for the future than believing their guy is objectively better than Manning today.
Ultimately, I think Tebow is a low tier QB, in terms of overall effectiveness (hence the comparison to Sanchez and Orton), but his mix of skills, notably his throwing skills, are his downfall. There are plenty of low tier QBs who fit the mold, and are basically interchangeable, so they are the safe choice for coaches and GMs. You don’t have to retool your offense around those guys to have a chance to win.
What I object to is the hyperbolic description of Tebow’s faults as a QB, and the suggestion that his appropriate role is Cheerleader.
I don’t think Tebow is a viable backup, simply because he needs an offense specifically designed to compensate for his limitations. That’s worth doing for a starter with some great skills and a few glaring deficiencies, but not for a guy you don’t expect to get in the game.
Even at the beginning of the season they didn’t use Tebow very much, and by midseason Ryan was already being criticized for going with Sanchez. If he’d switched to Tebow and it had worked, he would’ve been praised for it. I think people are trying too hard to come up with excuses for Tebow that don’t relate to football. The bottom line is this, I think: irrespective of the reasons the Jets acquired Tebow, Ryan and his staff had little confidence in his abilities as a QB. Maybe it was the throwing motion, his decision making ability, their own personnel for a possible wildcat package, or something else. But they obviously did not think the guy was going to help them win games.
Yes. A bunch of us have said exactly this. For some reason it sounds like you’re saying Tebow deserves a shot even though at best he’s a low-level starter - the kind of guy who gets replaced at the first opportunity - and as a backup he can’t run your regular offense. And he can’t even run an option offense as well as a bunch of other guys.
It’s not hyperbolic. In 2011 he was about as good as a starter who loses his job unless there is a compelling reason not to replace him, and that’s exactly what happened. If we’re arguing about the difference between Tebow being a cheerleader and a backup, what does it matter?
If he had made the switch early enough. By the time he took Sanchez out as starter, the season was lost, and going to Tebow would have been a no-upside choice for Ryan. I’m saying that’s why he chose McElroy over Tebow.
Well sure, because it would be interesting. I can see a half dozen teams every week with bottom of the barrel QBs, who are no more interesting than a sack of flour.
Tebow, Mr. Broken Play, the guy who will miss a 5 yard out but hit a scrambling 50 yard bomb? That’s entertainment.
By that point a lot of other things had happened, too: Tebow’s rib injury, a lot of crap in the press. When there was even a chance the team could make the playoffs, he didn’t think about going with Tebow even though Sanchez wasn’t playing well. That says enough, doesn’t it?
This is certainly the year of the option QB in the NFL. Kaepernick in the Super Bowl, RGIII and Wilson in the playoffs, and Cam Newton. All of them are better passers than Tebow.
Durability is going to be a major issue with an option QB, which is why I’m so happy to see Kaepernick run out of bounds or slider rather than trying to stretch for another yard on every run. RGIII needs to learn that he’s more valuable healthy than picking up an extra yard and taking a brutal hit.
I think the Jets misused Tebow all season, which isn’t to say I think he’s an NFL quality QB. The best analog for how the Jets tried to use Tebow was Kaepernick for the first half of the season. When the 49ers were starting Smith, they would put Kaepernick in for a gimmick play once in a while. Against the Jets, he out Tebowed Tebow, running for 50 yards and a TD on 5 carries out of six plays. The other (IIRC) was a deep pass to Moss that went incomplete, but its intention was probably more about keeping the defense honest. The thing is that Kaepernick’s arm and accuracy are good enough that he’s a legitimate passing threat. When Smith was taken out of the game with a concussion, Kaepernick came in and ran the same basic offense, if a little simplified. Harbaugh didn’t have to change the whole gameplan to adjust for the difference in Kaepernick’s and Smith’s throwing abilities like Ryan would have to going between Sanchez and Tebow. If you cheat on defense and play him to run, he can get it to an open hot read. I only saw a few Jets games this season, but every time Tebow was put in, it would suck the life out of a drive. It seemed that whenever Sanchez was having a good drive, they’d put in Tebow for a badly run gimmick play and it would sap the life from the drive.
I don’t know how you use him correctly. He’s not starter material, and the Jets aren’t disciplined enough to incorporate gimmick plays with him. Kaepernick worked as a gimmick the first half of the season because the 49ers had the discipline and experience to run gimmicks without losing momentum. Last year, the 49ers tried a few gimmick plays, but they tended to be drive killers. More practice and discipline turned them into great change-ups this year. Given the circus that is the Jets this year, I don’t think they can put together what they need to make a Tebow gadget play work with enough consistency to make it worth while.
Nitpick: Wilson is not an option QB, he is a scrambler. When he runs, it is because the play has broken down and he is trying to make something out of nothing (and often does). He isn’t running designed run options. He’s like Elway in that regard. Not that I’m comparing the two, just that Elway would run when his passing play broke down, as does Wilson, and they are both often successful at it.
Antwaan Randel-El. Eric Crouch. Lots of speedy qb’s have been converted to WR’s or kick returners. The problem is that Tebow isn’t speedy. I don’t know of any off the top of my head that have played anything other than WR or KR/PR. Tebow is too small/slow to turn into a TE and not a lot of teams have a need for a HB.
I’ll gloat a little here and say I called it right (not that it was in any way, shape, or form difficult to do):
We’ve hit stage 6 (with the twist that it’s merely because he’s “entertaining”).
It’s quite easy to tell folks they’re shifting the goalposts when you set up the first 5 goalposts yourself.
My first post
"For a guy who deserved to be cut before the season began, he managed to not foul it up any worse than the “real” QB. "
followed up with
“This isn’t even about crediting him with the wins, merely admitting that having him as QB isn’t a death sentence.” and
“He didn’t go out there and crap his pants”
You really need to stretch the English language to equate “didn’t crap his pants” with “I think he’s a good starting NFL quarterback.”
Just thought of one, though it (a) goes back a ways, and (b) still involved a “speed” position.
Tony Dungy was a quarterback at the University of Minnesota. He was picked up as an undrafted free agent by the Steelers, who converted him to defensive back. He played three seasons as a DB for the Steelers and 49ers, though he wound playing QB in part of one 1977 game for the Steelers, due to injuries.
You also suggested he was being treated unfairly and coaches were not giving him a chance, you said “his body of work suggests he is as capable as others who are considered legitimate (if not good) QBs” and that guys who are as bad as he was in 2011 still get first team reps and a chance to start or improve.
The Broncos had a better won-lost record when Tebow started, but that had less to do with Tebow than it did with their defense getting healthy and their schedule getting easier. He was one of the worst starting QBs in the league. If guys who play at that level get a shot to play and start, why did only two teams show any interest when the Broncos decided to let him go? The only suitors were the Jets and Jaguars and neither of them offered very much for him. Guys who perform at the level he did usually get benched or traded/released unless they have franchise contracts, are very young, or the team can’t find another option. Tebow got traded and benched.
You never said he was a great QB, but you did suggest he was better than he is, and you said he’s not getting a chance to start because of conservative coaching and not because his performance wasn’t very good. NFL experts think a quarterback should be effective at throwing the ball and scoring points in addition to running. You’re right that Tebow doesn’t fit that model.
Bit of whitewashing of history there? Also, don’t take it personal. TriPolar is also included there in posters who couldn’t let go of Tebow, at least initially.
Recall that the thread name is “Is Tim Tebow a good quarterback or not?” The answer clearly is no, and the rest of the thread involves a few posters (not just you) who want to find any sort of justification at all for keeping him on a football field.
If you like the guy and think he should be a QB based on personal feelings, fine. But the real stretch is continually trying to convince anybody else there’s anything more than personal preference involved - including the idea he’s ‘entertaining’ or comparable to even a mediocre QB or that coaches are too conservative to accept him.