The cite you link to says that the claim that Donald Trump said ‘Mein Kampf’ Had a ‘Profound Effect’ on him is false. That doesn’t mean that the, “The whole Mein Kampf thing is bullshit.”
Other posts in this thread show three sources confirming that Trump owned a book of Hitler speeches. One of those sources is a quote from Trump himself identifying, possibly mistakenly, the book as Mein Kampf.
Not that it really matters what book he owns, but the point is that debunking one claim about Hitler and Mein Kampf does not magically erase Trump’s own words on the topic.
This pretty clearly illustrates what has been going on throughout this thread. Fiddle Peghead gives a lot more weight to posts that support his viewpoint and barely notices posts that don’t.
FP: I haven’t seen any evidence that Trump is being blackmailed.
A: Here’s some evidence.
B: And here’s some.
C: And more evidence.
FP: But I haven’t seen any evidence of crimes.
A: You asked about blackmail, but here’s some evidence of crimes.
B: Blackmail doesn’t require crimes, but here’s some crime evidence.
C: And more evidence.
FP: I still haven’t seen any evidence that Trump is being blackmailed.
Furthermore… let’s look back to the subject of the OP. “Is Trump an Asset of Russia”? Nothing about this question requires that a blackmail arrangement exists, so it’s a bit of a motte-and-bailey tactic to pose an argument and constantly switch to the more easily argued form of the question.
Trump is behaving in the interest of himself and hostile foreign powers that he does business with, at the expense of American interests. He is absolutely an asset of these powers. There are many reasons he could be an asset - ranging from incompetence to avarice to extortion to other arrangements. There’s evidence in favor of all those reasons. The discovery process is in motion and Trump is trying his hardest to obstruct it it at every turn.
So I find the blackmail scenario likely, but this whole line of inquiry “is Trump an asset” hardly turns on the blackmail question.
To answer just one of your examples, he did not try to pull the US out of NATO. He made the claim that NATO was “obsolete”, and he complained that they weren’t paying their fair share, that the US was footing more than our share of the bill. Yes, he brought up the idea, but he didn’t do it. I see this example all the time, and I ask you: how did NOT pulling out of NATO help Putin??
Disparaging NATO allies
Calling NATO obsolete
Demanding NATO allies go above and beyond agreed upon defense spending
Suggesting that the US might not fulfill its article five obligations
etc
All of these things make NATO membership less attractive. This is exactly what Putin wants.
“He didn’t do it” is a nonsequitur to the assertion “he tried to pull the US out of NATO”.
If you want to rephrase what he actually did, he made statements that seriously call into question the US commitment to NATO. Russia does not require NATO to be disbanded; they also benefit richly from NATO members being uncertain about whether the US will meet its treaty obligations. If individual members drop out, that also helps Russia.
Literally yesterday Trump threatened to “destroy the economy” of Turkey, a NATO ally. The US military would now like to remove 50 nuclear weaopns from Turkey, but cannot do so because it would confirm the deterioration of the US relationship with a NATO-allied country.
Trump has acted in furtherance of Russia’s interests with regard to NATO, to the detriment of US interests.
Ah, I just thought you were being coy, and I apologize for interpreting it as specific to Ukraine. But my answer about Ukraine still stands. Now you bring up other specifics. If I haven’t made it clear, I fully acknowledge that Trump is capable of looking out for himself over the country at times.
What I said about being loathe to try and read his mind stands. No offense, but I have no desire to get into that.
I agree completely. I clearly said I think he would withhold funds in order to harm Biden.
A minor nitpick, but I am not defending Trump. I’m telling you what I *think *he would do. I made no claim to absolutely know Trump is that stupid. If I’m wrong, I would fully accept that. As for nuclear war, I don’t know you so I’m merely giving you my honest first impression, but when you say that, you sound a bit like a lunatic. Again, no offense. But really?
Drad Dog said Trump kept Mein Kampf by his bedside.
A conspiracy theory is using bad evidence to say that I have proven something. I have no evidence and I have proved jack doodle.
It is entirely possible that there are behind-the-scene reasons for Trump’s unexplainable actions which we would accept as reasonable if we knew about them. I am not saying nor declaring otherwise.
I’m saying that if someone has a gun pointed at your face, is ranting their head off, and their eyes are all bloodshot, you are stupid to decide that they will probably not shoot.
You are betting the future and security of our nation on this man. Do you have any reason to think that he’s trustworthy?
It wold take mind reading to tell exactly where that line is. It does not need to be pinned down that thoroughly, mere observation can how that he’s already crossed the line that most of us find acceptable.
And that, IMHO, is a direct abuse of power.
Well, it is not you that needs to accept the consequences so much as other people who are currently being slaughtered because of his actions. But it is good that you are willing to say that you would admit it if you were wrong about how stupid Trump is.
I specifically said that he might not go that far. And I’m not saying that he’ll launch nukes because someone offers him a payment for it. But I am saying that he will do things in his selfish and shortsighted fashion that will increase the chances of a nuclear exchange breaking out.
Yeah, and that has been litigated and cited in this thread as to exactly where that information came from, and how much credence it should have. To try to call it a conspiracy theory is either a complete misunderstanding of the exchange in the thread, or a different use of the term than is typical.
Conspiracy theories are a specific kind of circular reasoning. i.e.
“They’re covering up XYZ conspiracy. Here’s a piece of evidence”
“But this other piece of evidence contradicts your evidence.”
“Aha! It’s bigger than we thought!”
The Trump blackmail theory does not take the disproof of other evidence as evidence of the coverup. It is rather a case of accumulating circumstantial evidence (not least of which is Trump’s very public efforts to obstruct access to possibly exculpatory evidence). Contrary to what Matlock may have told us, circumstantial evidence is valid if there is enough of it and it agrees.
Not snark, I think posters here might feel ignored on some points. But OK.
Given that it would be a delicate matter for the russian pres to exercise control over an asset if he’s the US pres, why would you expect there would be a lot of paper, or E stuff, or a trail at all, after vlad gave him the “diplomatic pouch”?
It could have had a disc, drive, or even just a phone number. After that if you want to give dt a security clearance (!?) you’re going to be out there on your own hoping for the best for your country. Good luck with that.
I said this was a conspiracy theory. He asked why I thought so, so I linked to snopes to show that Trump did not in fact keep MK by his beside. That is all I wanted to say. I did not in any way mean to say that everything that has ever been brought up about Trump and Hitler and all the rest is bullshit. I repeat, Trump keeping MK by his bedside is bullshit. I hastily included a quote, but I should not have, because it had nothing to do with what I wanted to say to drad dog. I see how you would have interpreted this as you did though. I should have quoted this from snopes:
You are wrong about me not noticing posts that don’t support my viewpoint. A while ago I missed drad dog’s link about the Putin letter. I’ve probably missed a few others, but for the most part I have tried to read every link and every response, and I have responded to numerous posts. I read them all and actually, yes that’s right, actually think about what they say and what they do or do not support. I constantly try to look at both sides of issues discussed here. Just because I haven’t reached the same conclusions as you or others does not mean I don’t give arguments equal weight. The fact that I am a progressive/liberal through and through might at least lend some weight to what I’ve just said. I don’t just jump in on the liberal side and support it. On occasion, I’ll take the other side’s viewpoint and argue it, if I think it has merit.
OK so you are unable to articulate what a CT is, nor what about my post might be one. (Hint: A CT has got to have more than one sentence in it for starters) And your explanation is just more “You don’t know what I know” stuff?
In RE: dts state of mind. That is the subject of your thread: if you are speaking of crimes, which being an asset would be. State of mind is part of any criminal investigation or charge. Participating in a blackmail is also a crime. If you refuse to address his state of mind I think people might be upset with you here, and rightly so.
In RE: Mein Kampf: So why not say that drad dog is wrong? dt seems to have read hitler and, well, he sems to be the problematic populist president we have right now. Nothing to see?
I don’t use “tactics”. :rolleyes: I make my argument and try to support it.
I started the thread concentrating on blackmail, sure. But it is no doubt true that Trump has done things to benefit other countries that go against the interests of the US. And no, it doesn’t require blackmail for him to have done these things. I myself in this very thread have said as much.
Fine, I’ll accept this as something Putin would want. I was going for something way more substantial though. I mean, using this type of low standard, you could take anything Trump says or does and come up with something, some way to tie it to Putin.
Not rightly so, and I don’t care if anyone is upset with me. But to address this specifically, I agree with this. Sure. But I’m talking about reading his mind in order to decide what he would actually do, in real life.
“Is Trump an asset of Russia?” is a question being debated contemporaneously with the US bombing its own military bases to deny Russia military secrets as the Russians overrun those same bases.
But, yeah, this is ALLLLLLLL coincidence! We need proof greater than military movements and taken-over bases to even consider the question.
