The pledge is absolutely not a promise to “shut up” as you suggest.
And to address the other portion of your post, soldiers die in all wars. Wether or not the death was justified or not is not up to you or me, it is up to the particular person. If a soldier following orders believes he/she is doing the right thing and you or I come allong posthumously and say that their death was in vain is just wrong IMO. Particularly when that person is not a voulentary serviceperson. You are making an anti-war argument in thread about the pledge of allegience, it sure seems like a hi-jack to me.
I agree with some others who have stated that this thread has gotten off topic and I’m probably breaking rules by continuing to post in it, but I’ll comment this one last time.
Yes, BobLibDem, I chose a life as soldier. I’m proud of that fact and I ask no one to mourn the choices I’ve made. And I lay claim to no special insight but rather laid out a reason why the Pledge has significance. You don’t agree with that and that’s both your right and perogative. But using your own logic, you likewise have no special insight to why not saying the pledge is a good idea.
I’m maybe the most apolitical person you’ve ever “met”. I’ve served democrats and republicans alike and absolutely care nothing about their political affiliations. When I’ve had to decide on whether or not I could depend on someone, I assure you that I’ve never asked them about their politics. No, “deserving” has nothing to do with political parties. For lack of a better term, I guess it would have to be called moral values. I know, that’s a dirty term. But, do I personally think that a law breaking drug dealer, incapable of either understanding their obligation to society or even to human decency, is deserving of my service to defend and protect him? The truth is no, I don’t. But, in America today, there are enough people who think he does, that he gets to skate for free. And I understand that it’s all a part of the deal of being a soldier, but I don’t have to think the guy in my example deserves it.
No one is dying for you? If you live in America, then you, BobLibDem, are perpetuating a myth. But if that particular fallacy helps you sleep at night, then I’m truly glad you’ve found that solace. The GWOT is not limited to Iraq. Soldiers are dying all around the world and as long as you are in America, safe and sound, then I assure you that there are soldiers out there everyday risking their lives for you. Denial doesn’t make it any less so.
(Nor does denial of the history of terrorism directed against the US or consideration of Iraq in that fight—but that’s a different story)
Thank you Badura, both for the post but more so for what you are doing. I agree whole-heartedly with what you have said here.
You are appreciated and honored.
Thank you and those who serve with you.
The GWOT has nothing to do with Iraq. The soldiers that went into Afghanistan WERE fighting for me, since that was a rogue nation that aided and abetted criminal activity against the US. Those who went to Iraq were not fighting for me, they were part of an illegal and immoral invasion of a soverign nation that posed no threat to the US.
Back to the Pledge- I don’t see why the views of a soldier on the Pledge have any more relevance than those of a fireman or a dentist. All can be honorable occupations, none more than any other.
Has Iraq not paid monies to the families of suicide bombers? Did Saddam not use chemical weapons against the Kurdish peoples of his own country? Just because he didn’t use those weapons against the mainland United States, doesn’t mean that he wasn’t a terrorist does it? Saddam has both funded terrorism and commited acts of terrorism himself. The GWOT is just that, a global war, and is being executed as such. Just because things don’t happen in Anytown, USA doesn’t make it myth.
I’m glad that most of us are happily oblivious to that. But, as I stated earlier, if that myth makes your life easier…
I’m not sure exactly why, but something about that perspective reminds me of the infamous Dan Rather answer to the hypothetical ethics in journalism question he answered concerning being a part of an event as opposed to reporting an event.
As far as this goes, I’ll simply cease and desist. You see, we just don’t have enough of a common perspective to continue. I’ve got nothing against dentists but in the “honors” department, I just don’t equate what they do, in terms of service and sacrifice, with that of firemen, policemen, and service members. Of course, I may have missed the CNN footage, but I don’t remember ever seeing any dentists rush into the Twin Towers on Sept 11th 2001. And I think that those who carry the Flag into harm’s way do have a more meaningful perspective on it than a lot of others. Mea culpa.
Of course you didn’t. “Firefighters” didn’t rush into the building, “Cops” didn’t rush into the building, **people
** did. Had they had the knowledge to save people, and somehow been able to save people without being in the way of firefighter, civilians such as actors, lawyers, etc. would have helped. As it is, private citizens, who for all I know could have included dentists, did in fact save the lives of other, in the process of exiting the building. Come to think of it, actors and other civilians did help rescuing those trapped under the debris, such as in the case of actor Steve Buscemi, who showed up for work at his old fire station, soon after the attacks.
P.S. When I was a kid, I refused to stand for the pledge, on the grounds of all the horrible things that have happened to the Indians. Today, I no longer need to confront the issue of standing, so that is fine. Frankly, I see it as no more then jingoism.