Israel 60 years: A very improper celebration indeed

[BrainGlutton]

@FinnAgain

Oh, it’s like tonguing a sore tooth!

The Land of Canaan is the sore tooth of the world.

[Omegaman]

@BrainGlutton

The Land of Canaan is the sore tooth of the world.

Nice BG

[FinnAgain]

@Omegaman

If you get my meaning.

Can’t say I do, I’m afraid.

@Gala Matrix Fire

Doubt away. 64% of Israelis favor direct talks with Hamas. Only 28% oppose them.

Thank you for citing that bullshit study. Well, I mean, citing a bullshit piece of infotainment that doesn’t actually have any data, information or methodology, at all. I’ve been meaning to dubunksuch sloppy, agenda driven bullshit for a while now. Luckily, you’ve taken the same tack that Carter did, so I’m familiar with that bunk.

In this instance, the poll Carter cites asked Israelis a single, leading question “Should direct negotiations be carried on with Hamas for a cease fire deal and the release of Gilad Shalit?” By offering only one policy option, and also including the release of the Israeli captive held inGaza as a supposed result of talking with Hamas, the Ha’aretz poll skewed the results.

In contrast, the more nuanced February 2008 Steinmetz poll (based on a survey conducted 3/3-3/4) asked the best way to deal with Qassam rockets from Hamas-controlledGaza and gave multiple options ranging from talking with Hamas to re-occupyingGaza. The results, as the Steinmetz Center pollsters put it, are that the Israeli public “prefers military means over a ceasefire based on dialogue with Hamas,” and “an overwhelming majority of the Jewish public thinks that under current conditions,Israel should not agree to Hamas’s offer of a ceasefire in return forIsrael stopping its attacks in theGaza Strip and its operations against Hamas members in theWest Bank.” (Full results of the poll question are below.)

This directly contradicts Carter’s claims, as do other recent independent polls, such as the Panorama poll of Feb. 14, which found fully 57.2% in favor of " … a large scale ground operation in theGaza Strip." Together, these polls show when given negotiations with Hamas as the only option, Israelis choose action over inaction; but when offered a wider range of options for dealing with Hamas violence, negotiations are far from Israelis’ first preference.

Lo and behold, they got the answer the answer they were looking for.

@Gala Matrix Fire

Riiiiight. Everyone who opposes Israel’s policies is anti-Jew. That’s very big this year.

@FinnAgain

Yay! It only took two pages before someone brought up the shadow conspiracy of the Israel Lobby. We’re doing well. Now if someone can claim that any criticism of Israel, at all, is always met with cries of anti-Semitism, we’ll be well on our way.

We have a winnah!
Notice, of course, I specifically delineated hatred of a nation vs hatred of a people. But all that reading takes time, I sympathize.

[FinnAgain]

And while I’m at it, as you seem to have changed the subject a bit, notice your original quote that I called bullshit on:

@Gala matrix fire

Wildfire**MM probably has a lot in common with Israeli Jews who think their country has often gone down the wrong path and ought to treat the Palestinians considerably better than they have done.

Notice Wildfire’s actual position:

I think that instead of firecrackers they should use neutron-bombs

And in addition to calling for the genocide of Israel, he also alleged that Israel committed genocide.

So, rather than changing the subject with your bogus poll, you might have admitted that, no, most Israeli Jews who disagree with their country’s politics don’t believe in Wildfire’s imaginary genocide, nor would they support being neutron bombed.
Who’d a thunk it?

[Omegaman]

@FinnAgain

Can’t say I do, I’m afraid.

Well that’s allright. Room enough for everyone on this great world of ours.

[Leaper]

@Q.E.D.

No, moron, that was not the point of my post at all.

Of course it wasn’t. But as I pointed out, your actual point about the U.S. won’t hold any value for Wildfire, him not being American.

[FinnAgain]

And what with him evidently hating America and Americans, anyways

[Lemur866]

Anti-Americanism tends to fill the same social niche that anti-semitism does. You hardly ever find a rabid european anti-semite who isn’t a rabid anti-american, and vice-versa.

[Polycarp]

@BrainGlutton

The Land of Canaan is the sore tooth of the world.

Wel, it was described as “flowing with milk and honey”*, and all that sugar can’t be good for the teeth!

• Cf. bar Nun, Joshua, and Caleb bar Jephunneh, “Report of Reconnaissance of Canaanite, Amorite, and Amelekite Territories,” Kadesh-Barnea: Children of Israel Press, ca 1240 BC.,

[Polycarp]

Oh, they say he posted one Springtime
Denying the Holocaust
Under his bridge he makes his rants out
Antisemite, at any cost.

Our ioe-trick pony she called Wildfire
She called him Wildfire
Wildfire, M M Mmmmmmmm

[vison]

These are the ads at the end of the thread; these things make my head go wugga wugga:

World War III With Iran
Find Out What Nostradamus Says About The Years 2008 - 2012.
www.NostradamusOnline.comOnce in a Lifetime

Celebrate your son’s bar Mitzvah in the Holy City of Jerusalem
www.bar-mitzvah.org.il

Israel real estate - NEW
Unique & beautiful apartments for sale on the new Hyarkon 96 project
www.hayarkon96.co.il

btw: Happy Birthday, Israel. Many, many happy returns.

(I’m older than Israel and that makes my head go wugga wugga, too.)

As for the OP? I’m adding coals to the BBQ.

[Sevastopol]

@Bryan Ekers

What about the four I listed, and which I’ll expand on a little:

Democratic Government: …

Civil Rights: Freedom of expression and religion; freedom of the press.
…
population does not live in fear of its government and can vote to change it.

Probably the main difference at this point is that we have different opinions regarding the occupied peoples of the West Bank. We would agree that they do not enjoy those criteria you mention while under subjugation. “But they’re not citizens” you may cry. As you are aware, in this respect the grant or withholding of rights to civil participation is no more than a fiction to enable the Israeli state to continue in its lopsided manner.

@Argent Towers

Gays are also allowed to have gay pride marches and be openly gay in Israel…

Was this really the case? I recall a significant controversy over a gay march in the recent past.

[Sevastopol]

@Uzi

@Sevastopol

There are no objective measures to assess if this is so.

…
But, really why should I bother? Come on admit it, there is nothing anyone here could say to you that would change your mind is there? Be honest. :rolleyes:

Why the despair? It seems an uncontroversial opinion that a ‘best government’ is something that cannot be objectively measured.

You probably rely heavily on an inverse relationship to the quantity of foreign aid received and an index of racial equality. Whereas I am influenced by the general standard of public civility, and quiet. Where’s the middle ground in saying who is ‘best governed’?

[Sevastopol]

@Noone Special

… Wildfire, Do you think this also means your country should not celebrate its stathood?…

bold text changed.

statehood

[Weirddave]

I have only one thing to say to Israel:

L’Chaim!

[Sevastopol]

@Polycarp

Oh, they say he posted one Springtime
Denying the Holocaust
Under his bridge he makes his rants out
Antisemite, at any cost.

…

More of Polycarp’s signature trolling. How does he continue to elude reprimand?

IOW where has Wildfire been “Denying the Holocaust”?

[Tim_T-Bonham.net]

@Argent Towers

Gays are also allowed to have gay pride marches and be openly gay in Israel.

@Sevastopol

Was this really the case? I recall a significant controversy over a gay march in the recent past.

Well, anti-gay bigots protested, and tried to interrupt the march, and even injured some marchers. But they were arrested & prosecuted by government authorities.

‘Controversy’, and protests, and even violence by some spectators is quite a bit different from the government suppressing their GLBT citizens. (As is done in by the Palestine government, and all the other governments in the Middle East.)

[Mosier]

@Wildfire**MM

I think that Finn should be more polite toward people that do not agree with his views.

Since the majority of the replies here seams to be pretty pro-Israel, they should respect those who aren’t. This is a debate board where we express different views and the Israel-lobby (who seams to be the majority) should try harder to make an argument and not harass they who have argument that are unlike their own ones

I absolutely do not have to respect your stupid fucking racist opinion just because it’s a teensy tiny minority drowned in an ocean of rational opposition. Go fuck yourself.

[Lust4Life]

Ah yes those few million Jews threatening and bullying the hundreds of millions of innocent Muslims that they are surrounded by.

And of course all the deaths they have caused to those Muslims !
Though it does rather appear that if Israel had never existed the Islamic nations would have carried on killing their co religionists in great numbers anyway judging by Iran,Iraq,Afghanistan,Algeria,E.Africa and Lebanon to name but a few,where Jews aren’t the issue.

Speaking as a Gentile I say good luck and Happy Birthday Israel.

[Wildfire_MM]

You can like it or not, but the Israeli-Palestinian conflict started with massive jewish immigration to Palestine after first world war and the creation of Israel. A creation that resultet in ethnic cleansing, genocidial actions and a brutal occupation, - and that’s nothing to celebrate

Put that in your pipe and smoke it!