Henry , glad to see you’ve clarified the English usage question. Of course, it makes perfect sense to be polite to 17th century Brits, should any show up on the SDMB. Carry on. :rolleyes:
*Originally posted by edwino *deus ex machina solution for Israel’s current worries, and I think that both NATO or the EU could benefit from it as well. Israel won’t withdraw from Palestinian territories because of their issues with security, but a mutual protection pact (whether military with NATO or economic with the EU) could ensure that Israel could take a lot more risks since it would have a big brother willing to step in for it. They could withdraw, and if the next day 6 Arab countries invaded, they could be reasonably sure to have serious backup. NATO could benefit from Israeli support in European missions and from serious intelligence, and the EU could benefit from Israel’s strong tech sector and cheap labor (if a finalized peace treaty is worked out). That said, I don’t think there is a snowball’s chance in hell of it actually happening. **
her is a quote from Coldfire “the EU decides which member states it will allow, and given Israel’s current politic climate, there is no way in HELL they would be admitted. No American pressure (fictional or real) can change that.”
Koxinga
January 3, 2003, 6:16pm
203
So Naxox, you agree that your OP is completely pointless, then?
absolutely no
you will never know what will happend in close future if Israel (and their jewish lobby in USA) see great advance in EU membership.
I think EU can stand agaist it, but the preassure might be huge.
I believe that was Naxox sticking his/her fingers in his/her ears and saying “I can’t hear you!”
Coldfire says on Page 1 that Naxox is posting from Norway.
According to various sources, there are only about 1,500 Jews, more or less, in Norway, out of a total population of 4,481,162 (July 2000 est.)
Forget about him “showing us that there is a Jewish lobby in the U.S.”–I’d like to see him prove that there’s a Jewish lobby in Norway. Period.
Because if there is one, it sure doesn’t seem to carry much clout.
"Israel must stop its air attacks
on civilian Palestinian targets." This was Foreign Minister Jan
Petersen’s response to the news that at least 12 people, including
several children, were killed in an Israeli missile strike against
a private home...
No.: 136/02
Norway calls on Israel to halt air attacks
“Israel must stop its air attacks on civilian Palestinian targets.” This was Foreign Minister Jan Petersen’s response to the news that at least 12 people, including several children, were killed in an Israeli missile strike against a private home in Gaza. “I strongly deplore the loss of the lives of children and other innocent civilians,” said the Minister.
“Norway has no sympathy for Palestinian terrorists. Their acts of violence are among the most serious obstacles to peace, and must be stopped. But we cannot accept Israeli actions that are in conflict with important principles of international law and that only serve to exacerbate the conflict,” said Mr. Petersen.
He continued, “We have repeatedly made it clear to the Israeli authorities that we strongly deplore the extrajudicial liquidation of suspected terrorists. Suspects must be tried in a court of justice in accordance with the principles of the rule of law.”
Text of UN Security Council Resolution 1402, drafted by Norway.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/SCR204A.html
UN Security Council Resolution 1402
Following is the text of a resolution approved by the UN Security Council calling for the withdrawal of Israeli troops from Ramallah and other Palestinian cities. Resolution 1402, drafted by Norway, was adopted on a 14-0 vote, with Syria not participating in the vote in protest that the resolution was not stronger in condemning Israel.
"The Security Council, Reaffirming its resolutions 242 (1967) of 22 November 1967, 338 (1973) of 22 October 1973, 1397 (2002) of 12 March 2002 and the Madrid principles, Expressing its grave concern at the further deterioration of the situation, including the recent suicide bombings in Israel and the military attack against the headquarters of the president of the Palestinian Authority,
Calls upon both parties to move immediately to a meaningful cease-fire; calls for the withdrawal of Israeli troops from Palestinian cities, including Ramallah; and calls upon the parties to cooperate fully with Special Envoy Zinni, and others, to implement the Tenet security work plan as a first step towards implementation of the Mitchell Committee recommendations, with the aim of resuming negotiations on a political settlement;
Reiterates its demand in resolution 1397 (2002) of 12 March 2002 for an immediate cessation of all acts of violence, including all acts of terror, provocation, incitement and destruction;
Expresses support for the efforts of the secretary-general and the special envoys to the Middle East to assist the parties to halt the violence and to resume the peace process;
Decides to remain seized of the matter."
http://www.fredriknorman.com/archives/mt/000452.php
April 12, 2002 09:11 AM
According to newspaper-of-note Aftenposten, the Norwegian embassy in Washington D.C. is hit by a “storm” of letters with criticism by American jews, Norwegian-Americans and other Americans these days, because of the terrible anti-Israeli attitude displayed by prominent Norwegians.
< snip >
But also statements by Hanna Kvanmo, who wished it was possible to take back Nobels Peace Prize from Shimon Peres, and COOPs plans to boycott Israeli goods, have resulted in anger in America, according to press- and cultural advisor Jon-Åge Øyslebø [at the embassy]. The embassy is now going to try to convince the letter-writers to modify their views. It is the policy of the embassy to answer all communications.
Hanna Kvanmo’s and the Nobel Committee’s statement is here.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1912953.stm
Friday, 5 April, 2002, 11:58 GMT 12:58 UK
Members of the Norwegian committee that awards the annual Nobel Peace Prize have launched an unprecedented verbal assault on Israeli Foreign Minister and Nobel peace laureate Shimon Peres.
In an interview with a Norwegian newspaper, committee members said they regretted that Mr Peres’ prize could not be recalled because, as a member of the Israeli cabinet, he had not acted to prevent Israel’s re-occupation of Palestinian territory.
One member said Mr Peres had not lived up to the ideals he expressed when he accepted the prize.
“What is happening today in Palestine is grotesque and unbelievable,” said Hanna Kvanmo.
“Peres is responsible, as part of the government. He has expressed his agreement with what [Israeli Prime Minister Ariel] Sharon is doing,” she said.
BTW, the Straight Dope on the Coop Norge boycott–they had to back down. Was that due to the Jewish Lobby?
The final result was that some Norwegian grocers, dissatisfied with Israel’s political stance, made grumbling noises about planning to boycott or slap special labels on Israeli food imports, but within a few days they had all reconsidered and decided to address their dissatisfaction through other means. An American writer jumped the gun and editorialized on the issue without verifying whether the grocers had ever followed through on their threats.
There will bee no Coop-boycott of Israel
Thursday’s message in media that said Coop Norway was going to boycott fruit and vegetables from Israel, is not correct.
Together with Coop Sweden and Coop Denmark (Coop Nordic) it has been decided not to boycott Israel, but follow national and international standings in regard to the question of Israeli boycott. There will therefore bee no one-sided Coop boycott.
The nordic cooperatives will support any initiativ that will stop the violence and secure the peace in the Middle East.
So, where’s the Norwegian Jewish Lobby in all this, Naxox? If they even exist, they sure don’t seem to be very effective in pushing any sort of Jewish or Israeli agenda. The Norwegian Foreign Minister, the Norwegian UN delegation, the Nobel Committee–all seem impervious to the Norwegian Jewish Lobby’s blandishments.
A Look at The ‘Powerful Jewish Lobby’
http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/jewishlobby.html
In 1978, Jewish American scholar Alfred M. Lilienthal wrote in his detailed study, The Zionist Connection:[note 10]
How has the Zionist will been imposed on the American people?.. It is the Jewish connection, the tribal solidarity among themselves and the amazing pull on non-Jews, that has molded this unprecedented power … In the larger metropolitan areas, the Jewish-Zionist connection thoroughly pervades affluent financial, commercial, social, entertainment, and art circles
**To sum up: Jews wield immense power and influence in the United States. The “Jewish lobby” is a decisive factor in US support for Israel. Jewish-Zionist interests are not identical to American interests. In fact, they often conflict.
As long as the “very powerful” Jewish lobby remains entrenched, there will be no end to the systematic Jewish distortion of current affairs and history, the Jewish-Zionist domination of the U.S. political system, Zionist oppression of Palestinians, the bloody conflict between Jews and non-Jews in the Middle East, and the Israeli threat to peace.
**[
“The Jewish lobby is powerful - very powerful”
Apartheid in the Holy Land
by Desmond Tutu
Monday April 29, 2002http://www.ety.com/HRP/jewishstudies/israels_apartheid.htm
People are scared in this country [the US], to say wrong is wrong because the Jewish lobby is powerful - very powerful. Well, so what? For goodness sake, this is God’s world! We live in a moral universe. The apartheid government was very powerful, but today it no longer exists. Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pinochet, Milosevic, and Idi Amin were all powerful, but in the end they bit the dust.
Alessan
January 3, 2003, 9:02pm
210
Somehow, I feel as though some line has been crossed.
You realize that the IHR are the folks who deny the Holocaust ever happened, right? They’re probably not the best source to use when discussing a Jewish lobby.
One link was by Desmund Tutu in the Observer and the second one was by Mark Weber /who is director of the Institute for Historical Review. He studied history at the University of Illinois (Chicago), the University of Munich, Portland State University and Indiana University (M.A., 1977). For nine years he served as editor of the IHR’s Journal of Historical Review.)
what’s so antisemetic about them ?
Waverly
January 3, 2003, 9:20pm
213
Err, this is the same Mark Weber who authoredThe Holocaust: Let’s Hear Both sides Auschwitz: Myths and Facts
I’m not sure I’d want to be using him as source material. Revisionist history is bad enough, couple it with hatred and it’s more odious still.
I didn’t know that fact
Koxinga
January 3, 2003, 9:25pm
215
I think Naxox is probably a good kid and lucky to find the SDMB. Here’s to combating ignorance!
From Womens World
Two Souls
(about the jewish and christian lobby)
On the one side, there is the domestic political pressure. The Jewish lobby is, of course, one of the strongest in the United States. The Jewish community is highly organized on rigid, authoritarian lines. Its electoral and financial power casts a long shadow over both houses of the Congress. Hundreds of Senators and Congressmen were elected with the help of Jewish contributions. Resistance to the directives of the Jewish lobby is political suicide. If AIPAC were to table a resolution abolishing the Ten Commandments, 80 Senators and 300 Congressmen would sign it at once. This lobby frightens the media, too, and assures their adherence to Israel.
But nowadays, even the power of this mighty lobby does not match the influence of the Christian fundamentalist lobby, dominated by the evangelist preachers. It puts the fear of God into the leaders of the Republican Party. George Bush Jr. remembers well that his father was forsaken by this lobby, when he failed to obey it.
http://www.wworld.org/programs/middleEast.asp?ID=245
And the Tutu article, while mainstream, still doesn’t support any assertion about the Jewish Lobby. And frankly, his contention that “people are scared” is silly.
There are Jews in the US, they use the political system. There are Muslims in the US, they use the political system. There are sugar farmers in the US, they use the political system. None of them are monolithic blocks. The Cuban voting block in one state (FL) has helped form the US foreign policy towards Cuba, but it is far from monolithic. IMO, Jews in the US are far more fragmented in their support for Israel.
Again, what is your point? What is wrong with voters exercising their rights under a political system?
Oh, and the Woman’s World article doesn’t match up with my experiences at all. The Jewish community is organized along “rigid, authoritarian lines”?! Whoever wrote this has no idea what they are talking about. Organizing Jews is like herding cats.
*Originally posted by Coldfire *Blackeyes , but: Economist Nit Pick Time.
This is one of my pet peeves. I’m not sure if you’re even guilty of it, or if you just chose your words poorly, but here goes.
The fact that the Euro is worth more than the Dollar right now doesn’t say anything about the EU being the largest competitor of the US right now. In fact, that static fact alone doesn’t say anything about either economy at all.
What’s important is how much is was worth, say, 2 years ago. That needs to be compared to what the rate is now, and lo and behold, the Euro has indeed appreciated when compared to the US Dollar. (Top of my head: about $1.05 to the Euro now, about $0.85 to the Euro two years ago.)
But the Euro could have been worth 0.10 dollars (depending on how it was defined at the moment of conception), and it still could have appreciated 10% over the last year. Obviously, the Euro was initially set at a rate close to $1 for simplicity, but that fact alone says nothing about the underlying economies.
We all know that Yen rates are different. What is it, like 10,000 Yen to the Dollar or something (I honestly have no idea at the moment)? As in the example above, that fact alone says nothing about the Japanese economy. Not all currencies started out as “one-on-one”.
Alright, that’ll be all for now, class.
I stand corrected, then.
Blast, I didn’t even think to snip most of the quote to save space. Stupid me. Bah.
hajario
January 3, 2003, 10:03pm
220
Well, well, well, Naxox. You’re ignorance and true colors have finally been exposed for all the world to see. You actually quoted Mark Weber as an authority! Either you found every scrap you could by Googling “jewish lobby” and didn’t know who he was or maybe you did know who he was. Either way you are a foolish young man.
For the third time, little man, how much first hand experience with Jewish people have you had? How do you think Israel/the U.S. and the EU will push a Jewish lobby into Norway? What would this Jewish lobby do to Norway?
Haj