I can’t fucking believe I wrote that.
Your ignorance…
Haj
My thoughts exactly.
Well, look on the bright side, folks–at least we know where we stand. Naxox isn’t going to waste any more time with chitchat about geography or the EU. It’s time for the Main Event–the International Zionist Conspiracy.
I’m just amazed that it took him six days and five pages to get around to it.
Well, we’ve done this before, I guess we can do it again…
Everyone knows the Jews are all about dominating Norway. It’s referred to in the Torah as the 2nd holy land. “And Yahweh proclaimed, “Unto Bryggen shall I send thee, homeland of Anderstein, grand nephew of Solomon.”” All that remains is for the British to insist that the native Norwegians move over a bit for the Nordic Jews. They won’t have to move far, since there isn’t very many of them… Yet. The threat is very real, and creeps ever closer.
Amen and hallelujah to that last sentence!
Eva Luna, Jewish agnostic whose grandparents (who grew up Orthodox) can’t understand why she doesn’t agree that Arab, Palestinian, Muslim, and terrorist are all synonyms
Ah yes, Womens World, courageous exposers of the International Jewish Conspiracy, which even now reaches its tentacles into Norway.
As for this: "The Jewish community is highly organized on rigid, authoritarian lines. - ROFLMAO is wholly insufficient for the occasion but will have to do.
"This lobby frightens the media, too, and assures their adherence to Israel." - We are puzzled, Naxox: if the U.S. media is “Jewish-controlled”, how does it follow that it would be frightened by the “Jewish lobby”?
You are carrying a sad cargo of irrational hate, my boy.
One useful outcome of your thread may be this: we can link to it when another GD thread arises on the subject “Is criticism of Israel tantamount to anti-Semitism?” The answer to this in general terms is, of course, no. But when you find someone vehemently railing against Israel in irrationally one-sided fashion (especially when the “Jewish lobby” or “Jewish-dominated media” enter the conversation) you have usually uncovered an anti-Semitic bigot who’s using Israel as a convenient cover for his/her hatred.
… often making “hard paralells”, sometimes even mocking the decision makers, but some fucking rules I would like to have anyway. Between us posters. Even in the Pit.
Because this all is so connected to this thraed, I desided to put it here and not as a new thread in the Pit.
I have to put this in two posts, because it is so long.
It is long because I know how the trolls are acting, if You do not mention everything possible or impossible in Your post.
It is naturally sad that it will be too long for those illiteteral trolls, that would learn most of this, surely I get a comment about that it was too long.
Duck Duck
I still want to go through Your last answer to me.
Please be patient.
My point is this:
- Someone just takes one sentence out of Your post, and when You answer claims that You are a … (here You can put anything You can imagine).
- Some other tells You plainly that You are a racist or something.
And then when You ask them both for more specific information, some of them do not answer, some of them are able to send a new accusation without proof or anything.
They seem have one thing in common:
a) they read selectively the thread,
b) they do not read the thread, just some posts here and there
c) they are not able even to read one whole answer, one whole single post!
d) they read everything, but do not understand what the are reading.
What do they have in common?
They do some verbal farthings, and then disappear.
If they do not disappear, the just accuse You again.
Even if this is The Pit, it does not mean that we can totally forget all behaviour, that there is no moral burden in showing the readers how the poster has come to his conclusions.
I hope we all can agree on that. (Except some trolls, of course).
My point is,
1) that I do not begin every post, with the phrase: “I am originally from Finland…”
2) It really does not matter from where I come, because the Net is world-wide.
3) The world is so small nowadays, that every changes in every block, is reflecting to all of us, so I and everybody else should be free to speak about whatever they choose. So Your origin does really not matter.
The question is, if a reader with an average brain and reading capacity, is able to find out in this particular thread that I am a Finn, not a Russian, even if I post from Russia.
I put here the sentences that in my mind gives the reader a chance to make some conclusions. That mean that everything is snipped, everything with quoting-marks, bolding mine:
I came to this thread on page 3, writing among other things:
- “As long as I have a vote in EU…”
- “E.g… Finland should grow corn at the same price as France etc. If You think Texas and Canada at the same time You get the idea.
And we can’t change it (without the help of Germany and its votes and its lashed allies). And they will not help Finland in this question, but guess are we also lashed!
Our fucking Finnish politicians says that we are an independent state within EU.
Total bullshit.
We can’t even pee without checking with Brussels. And our politicians, when people want to have changes, tells us “that according to EU we can’t do this or that”… etc.”
- “after working for EU in 2,5 year…”
So, could a Russian guy write like this???, plus tell that he was working as a trader in the 80’ties. God! he would have been shot on the spot for trading governmental property!
The main thing is that Monty read this because he commented it like this:
Later I answered him, asking “Could You be more specific?”
Naturally I never got an answer. I think there was no chance for him to specify anything and show how they are incorrect.
So everything above was written on page 3, the very page that Monty later referred to, **even if he quoted one sentence from my writings and made a remarkable conclusion, ** from page 4!!!
And You Duck Duck Goose came to the astonishing conclusion that he naturally believed that I am speaking about the Russian duma as my parliament!
But let us come to that in due time.
On page 4, I write among other things:
-
“Finland grow wheat, oats, and barley!
And we would like to continue to do so, but…” -
“Exactly! Finland and France are also different countries. And it is forbidden to give national subsidiaries to the Finnish farmers! EU forbids our parliament to do anything about it!”
Now stop! The last sentence “EU forbids our parliament to do anything about it! is the very sentence that he uses later on page 5 and interprets that I am speaking about the Russian duma.
Knowing he has read everything so far, I call him illiterate in the sense of being unable to read. But that comes much later.
So, to continue the same post that I referred to earlier here above:
- “Anyhow we are, France and Finland, different countries, and should have the right to grow
our own bread!
quote:
And actually, both Finnish and French corn farmers are now getting EU subsidies for their crops, the same way that US corn farmers get subsidies for their crops.
Yes, we both get EU-subsidies.”
- “And EU forbids our parliament to help our farmers, even so much, that we could be self-sufficient as a country!
But EU has free passage to sell to us their corn.”
[Can someone really be so stupid that he thinks that I am speaking about Russia???]
- “This is not likely to happen, because the politicians will far earlier give us a chance to vote again about EU.”
[Did Monty really think Russia has ever had the chance to vote about joining EU??? That would have been the news of the year!]
So we know for sure that Monty has read this post.
Probably he read also the next post, the post after this above.
It was again written by me, and there I say among other things:
- “In the area where I worked last time in Finland was an agricultural area, with wooden industry.”
- “ “I wrote:“Our fucking Finnish politicians says that we are an independent
state within EU…”
Here between comes Blackeye calling me a fuckwit, when I admit that he is right! Further on, he gives proof of that he can’t see the difference between “one world currency” as he interprets “the number 1 currency in the world”.
That is a long story, I just want to show that Monty is not the only one that can’t read, but he, Blackeye, is not a troll. He answers and he seem to be sometimes right.
My next post:
(I tell a Finnish joke etc. and continue):
- “Now, the joke is extremely self-criticizing.
We, the Finns, did fight on the same side as Hitler, against Stalin.” - “ Finland was bankrupt in early 90’ties, and unable to push any money in an attempt to get “a foot in the door”. The other guy was conquering our “front-yard market”. (We were the only western country with a common border to USSR,…”
At last, on page 5, Monty is posting the post where all this innocently begun;
So, Monty has read everything, or anyhow almost everything that I have posted, because he has these one or two sentence answers here and there.
And he thinks I am a Russian…
I answered him:
(Just a side-note: If I speak about the Finnish parliament, I call it parliament, if I speak about the Russian one, I call it usually “duma”. The last sentence was not meant as a nit-pick, as You can see even in my next answer.)
Monty answers me:
Well, the sentence is on page 4, not 3. And totally taken out from its context.
Look at the context. Quoting myself:
[quote]
- “Exactly! Finland and France are also different countries. And it is forbidden to give national subsidiaries to the Finnish farmers! EU forbids our parliament to do anything about it!
[quote]
Then later Duck Duck Goose gets it to:
Duck Duck Goose can You kindly explain how You put together Your three sentences. I naturally know, but I put here the whole text and put everything You did not concern as relevant in bold letters and those three sentences You chose in italics.
And I put my new comments in brackets = (Henrys comment: )OK?
So here is the original text written by me:
[quote]
Finland grow wheat, oats, and barley!
And we would like to continue to do so, but:
In the following quote I have replaced the words “sugar beets” with the word “corn”, because we indeed grow corn. I think Duck Duck will allow me to do that
snipped quote:
quote:
You’re saying that you don’t think it’s fair to expect Finnish corn farmers to get the same price for their crop as French corn farmers, the same way that it wouldn’t be fair for Texas corn farmers to get the same price for their crop as Canadian corn f
mers.
But the problem with that comparison is that Texas and Canada are in different countries–Texas is in the USA and Canada is…in Canada.
Exactly! Finland and France are also different countries. And it is forbidden to give national subsidiaries to the Finnish farmers! EU forbids our parliament to do anything about it!
(Henrys comment: here are the two first sentences, let’s now look for the third)
quote:
Different countries pay different prices for crops because they are different economic units.
This is exactly like I would like to have it.
quote:
A better comparison would be to compare Texas sugar beet farmers with Indiana sugar beet farmers. Texas and Indiana are both in the USA, and are thus in the same economic unit, the way that Finland and France are both in the same economic unit, the EU,
with its Common Agricultural Policy.
Does Washington forbid the state Indiana from helping it farmers? Any kind of economical help?
The answer might be whatever. Anyhow we are, France and Finland, different countries, and should have the right to grow our own bread!
quote:
And actually, both Finnish and French corn farmers are now getting EU subsidies for their crops, the same way that US corn farmers get subsidies for their crops.
Yes, we both get EU-subsidies. It is true, but the price is so low, that when we sell it for the price EU command us to sell it for, the farmer can not pay for his gasoline that his tractor uses!
When the French farmer has his oat growing in may some 5 inches length, we have 5 inches of snow and ice on our fields.
When we have our oat ripe, in August, the French farmer is preparing to take his second harvest. We get our next harvest the next summer.
And in a climate like France, the growth of corn per hectare is about twice as big, measured in tons.
Try to compete with the same prices and almost the same subsidies with France or Italy at these conditions.
And EU forbids our parliament to help our farmers, even so much, that we could be self-sufficient as a country!
But EU has free passage to sell to us their corn.
(Henrys comment: Can anyone with any knowledge even think that I am referring to Russia???
And here Duck Duck Goose has taken the last of her chosen sentences, the third sentence, taking away the last part and the following sentence:
But EU has free passage to sell to us their corn. Does anyone really think I am speaking about Russia here???)
To be continued…
Continuing from earlier post
It is called “free trade”. I call it “selling our independence”. But this is just the top of the ice-berg.
Now they try to get our army also integrated. There is also a discussion about a NATO-army, that is a totally other thing, so I do not want to go into that.
I would not be surprised if the stubborn Finns would begin to fight any army with different uniforms that steps inside the Finnish boarders. But before that, they would shoot the politicians. Since last war the government has escaped a
left-wing revolt, but can not escape a right-wing revolt, because most of the left will join.
This is not likely to happen, because the politicians will far earlier give us a chance to vote again about EU.
More later, I get guests again.
[/quote]
Duck Duck Goose
And how do You come to a conclusion that I am speaking about Russia, if my text would be as You have quoted:
“It is forbidden to give national subsidiaries to the Finnish farmers! EU forbids our parliament to do anything about it!…And EU forbids our parliament to help our farmers…"
Duck Duck Goose
You come to the conclusion:
Duck Duck Goose
And then the sentence inside the quote: “especially since you yourself had referred to it, twice, as “parliament”, not “duma”.”
Where have I done that???
Then Monty, the troll, comes with the Great Final Truth:
Very enlightening.
In the next post he tells that I am an anti-Semite.
hajario and TwistofFate defends me.
Thank You hajario and TwistofFate .
I forgot my signature.
Okay, well, whatever, I have the feeling we’re spending too much time on semantics and “who said what when”.
You said this:
However, I found this:
http://www.helsinki-hs.net/news.asp?id=20021028IE2
The phrase “will continue to be able to provide subsidies” implies that national subsides are being provided, now. As apparently they are.
http://www.mmm.fi/english/agriculture/policy/
So it looks like at the end of this year, the EC will decide whether the Finnish government will be allowed to continue paying national subsidies to Finnish farmers.
I will rephrase Monty’s question: Does the EU have some “magical” control over the Finnish parliament? If so, how? It looks to me like the only “control” the EU has over the Finnish parliament is the control that the Finns willingly relinquished when they joined the EU in 1995. They agreed to give away some of their sovereignty in exchange for access to better markets.
Like the Minister said, "There is no going back to national agricultural policy in the EU member states." Perhaps the Commission will allow the Finnish government to continue providing national subsidies to Finnish farmers; perhaps it won’t.
Duck Duck
Nice that You found this, but it is about the southern Finland and big units, the small has already gone.
But I come to this later, OK.
but, but…
Monty wrote:
Monty, You wrote:
“Yeah, Henry, but in your world the EU has some magical
control over Russia’s parliament.”
Duck Duck
Anyhow, Your question is an interesting one.
But I have to have some sleep now.
Later. OK?
As a newbie to this board, I have some comments to make to this thread
I did understand that henry was from finland( go Ahonen) and that he livs in russia. I have read all the post 
( i did realize that on page 3? 
for the OP. Israel is in asia, Egypt is in africa and asia and Turkey is in europe and asia. If Israel want’s to be a member of EU that’s allright for me( I live in Norway and we will never become a member of the eu)
About the jewish lobby… I dont think that the jews is in charge in USA. They have influence, but nothing more. Naxox dont like any foreigner, he dislike both muslims and jews. Maybe even swedes?
But if your talking about the conflict in ME i’m on the arab side. :eek: ( runs for cover? )
Excuse my bad english., okay ?
Monty clearly thought that you were talking about the Russian parliament, which is why he asked you this. I am rephrasing the question–putting it another way.
On his behalf, I am asking the question that he clearly intended to ask.
“Do you feel that the EU controls the Finnish parliament?”
Oh, I stand by my comment that this is an interesting window on European antisemitism.
Someone made the point that finding one idiot in a crowd doesn’t make all Europeans antisemites. (I don’t ever recall suggesting that it did. But is anyone going to try to argue that there are NOT many Europeans who are also antisemites?)
Antisemitism is alive in Europe still. And Behold! Nanox is what it looks and sounds like.
Duck Duck Goose
Yes, as I wrote, Your question is the interesting one. I will answer a.s.a.p. about "Do you feel that the EU controls the Finnish parliament?"
Or maybe more correctly how Finland depends on EU, how Finland did lose its indepence, etc…
But it is a working day here in Russia, the holidays begins tomorrow.
Gaute65
Welvome!
Your phrase: “I live in Norway and we will never become a member of the eu”, was just a very Norwegian one. A nice one.
I liked that. Keep Your independence holy, be a patriot.
Please use the term pro-Israelian-lobby, (if You have to use it at all), that Jackmannii most kindly suggested us. It is a good term.
And this is the right place to learn more English. Just capitalise all the names of different countries.
Also geographical names: Africa, Asia etc.
Also EU, not eu.
Hickory6
I think we have met before in an Israeli/Palestinian thread.
From that, I think You know, I am against the politics of Israel outside its 1967 boarders.
I am very much for the suggestion that edwino made:
To have some international power, he suggests NATO, securing the boarders of Israel. If I understand him right, he has nothing against that Palestine is formed after Israeli gets guarantees about it’s boarders.
I put here his texts about it, so that I do not wrongly put any words in his mouth
I’ll be back to this question, because it is a very interesting one.
Still, Gaute65
I do not regard myself as a anti-Semite.
So when You told that Naxox in your opinion is one, did You find other(s) in this thread, if I may ask?
Jackmannii
Why does everyone write the word “antisemitism”, “antisemitic” etc.? My Webster tells that it is “anti-Semitism”, “anti-Semitic” and so on.
Is my Webster wrong, do You think?
Btw. The word “You” is still capitalised in English business letters, even year 2003. It would look unpolite, if someone would begin to write “you” in a business-letter.
My best regards, from
Henry
(originating from Finland).
I love it how non-native English speakers compensate for their lack of confidence in their language skills by seizing on imaginary nitpicks like this.
As a former editor, Henry B, I can tell you will all confidence: No. “You” is not capitalized in standard business correspondence. I’m sure that you’ll pull up some Indian web site that still insists on pre-Victorian usage, but BELIEVE ME–the rest of the world does not capitalize “you”.
I have my Strunk & White in hand, ready to slap ya down! Anybody else? Who wants some?
Doghouse Reilly
Heh, heh. I will check out Your “Strunk & White”, in that sense that if they have it on discette, and it is very good, I might buy one when I am next time in Finland.
You are naturally right, that You are not using “You”.
But when You are in Europe, making business, most letters from non-English countries that are written in English, capitalize the word.
It is because, if You write in german and do not use “Sie” with capital letter, You will be looked upon like a little bit ‘not so civilized’. In Swedish You can nowadays us gemena, but if You write to Finland in Swedish, it’s better to use a capital letter.
In Finnish You use a capital letter, when You address people.
Summa Sumarum of all this is, that when I get a letter from Germany, in English, they almost without exception, use the capital letter for “You”.
And I answer writing with capital letter.
It is quite common in Europe.
I only know English as a language where “I” is capitalised, but not “you”.
Anyhow, You will be very ashtonished what kind of English is coming through within 3 - 5 years, when every other letter or post will be from Kalkutta or Vorkuta. Imean, when there will be an Internet-connection in “every-mans” home etc.
You do understand that we, the foreigners, use English as a common language, between ourselves.
English is quite easy to learn, but if I begin to educate myself in some Arabic, well I am in big trouble… They have English-lessons over there and we over here can also easily learn English.
We get English-spoken films and music quite easily.
The dictonaries “English - a foreign language” are always very good.
Just for this thread:
The Germans boycotted some EU-talks in Finland, because we did not have room for all the languages to be interpretended, so our Finnish EU-staff took French and English and skipped the German language. The Germans went home and protested quite a lot.
In answer to Henry B: antisemtism is properly not hyphenised as that is how the term was spelt when it was first conceived. Also it’s worth noting that semtic only properly refers to a group of languages of which Hebrew is just one among many, though in less enlightened times the language spoken by a group was used to divide them into races (the concept of race and the old schemes have been throughly de-bunked).
http://sicsa.huji.ac.il/hyphen.htm (in case your wondering, yes THAT Vidal Sasson)
Unfortunately, yes - many Europeans are Anti-Semites. So are “many” Americans, for that matter (or anywhere else, fill out the blanks). The problem is, that the word “many” seems to imply some sort of significant number. I maintain that at least in Europe, this is not the case. Sure, Anti-Semitism exists. But just because you see 2,000 Neo-Nazis marching in the streets of Berlin doesn’t mean they make up a significant part of the population. Any country (or continent) will have its nutballs. The media being what it is, these nutballs get far more exposure than their actual number or indeed influence would warrant.
Not at all. Naxox here is just an uneducated fool, afraid of all that’s foreign to him. The fucker can’t even form a coherent sentence stipulating why Israel joining the EU would be so bad. Even though they’re luckily small in number, I’ve seen anti-Semites far, far more scary than li’l Naxox here - and they’re not just in Europe either.
So all in all, your observation was superficial, and wrong.
Nope, I disagree. Just because he’s an inartiulate idiot doesn’t mean that he’s not an anti-Semite and the fact that there are scarier anti-Semites that are scarier than Naxox doesn’t mean he’s not an anti-Semite.
The crack about “The Jewish community is highly organized on rigid, authoritarian lines” is one of those warning signs of anti-Semitism, just as “I’ve got nothing against those people but…” is a warning sign for bigotry against whatever comes after the word ‘but’
Fenris
< semi-hijack>
No-one’s said it in this thread (that I’ve noticed, at least) but an interesting factoid: one sure warning sign of a raving bigot is the magic phrase “I’m not anti-Semitic; I have nothing against Arabs. And they’re Semites too!” That phrase is exactly equivilant to “I’m not anti-black! Some of my best friends are black.”
</semi-hijack>
Can I “ditto” you Eva? I hate doing “me too” posts, but I hate the “Jews are a monolithic hive-mind group.” slur and can’t let it pass without comment. I’d say it’s the dumbest of the anti-Semitic slurs as it has no basis in reality. How does that phrase go? Something like: “Put five Jews in a room and you’ll have six opinions” 
Fenris
Waiting for Noxioux to comment “Yeah, well three Jews objected to the same slur: you ARE a hive-mind!”