I’m wondering about the pronunciation of a couple of Italian words.
Calzone – “cal-ZONE”, or “cal-ZONE-e”?
Zabaglione – “zab-al-YONE”, or “zab-al-YONE-e”?
I tend to voice the final “e” (as in “Porsche”) because my second language in school was German and it’s a habit. Also, the first time I heard both of the Italian words they were pronounced with the final “e”. But it seems as if most people here in So. Cal. do not voice the final “e”.
In watching French films, I’ve noticed that phrases like “Je t’aime” are pronounced with the final “e” (“je TEM-e”) or without (“je TEM”). And I know that different regions in Germany have different pronunciations of the “ch” (“ish” vs. “ichh” – sort of like a hiss).
So is it possible that “calzone” and “zabaglione” are pronounced differently in different parts of Italy? If so, what parts?
What are the correct pronunciations for “calzone” and “zabaglione”? (As I said, I do use the final “e”.)
I don’t speak Italian, but my missus does and I just got back from Rome, so I can say with some confidence that you do say the final E, as though it were an é in French. “Thank you” - “grazie” - is pronounced “GRA-tzi-é”. Don’t know about regional variations. Italian seems to be much more phonetic than a lot of other languages, once you know the rules, some of which are counterintuitive to English - e.g. “bruscheta” is pronounced “broos-KE-ta” and “bacco” is pronounced “BA-cho”, something a lot of English speakers get back to front.
To follow up MonkeyMensch’s correction, the word that’s pronounced “BA-cho” is “bacio,” meaning “kiss.” “Bacco” is the Italian name for Bacchus, which is not a word that comes up in conversation a whole lot.
Johnny L.A., the final “e” is supposed to be pronounced in standard Italian. But there are areas in which the “e” is dropped, in the style in which they speak in that area, but technically yes, the “e” is pronounced.
If people aren’t pronouncing it when you hear it in CA I’d guess it’s more because they don’t know how to speak Italian than anything else. It’s like the 95% of people who pronounced “bruschetta” as “broo-shetta” - drives me insane.
As far as “zabaglione” goes, people could also be confusing its pronunciation with “sabayon,” the French version of the word, which ends with a nasal “n.” People hear sabayon and then think zabaglione is the same word and pronounced the same.
There’s a few accents towards the south of the country that add a little emphasis to the final ‘e’ sound but as Monkey already stated, it’s pretty much kept to singing.
WTF is with yanks and words like oregano and Carribean? The rest of the world can say 'em just fine. It’s like the way yanks say “internet” s’if it doesn’t have two Ts.
Believe it or not, people, there actually is no one way to pronounce Italian words. Don’t believe me? Get an Apulian, a Veronese, a Lombard, a Campagnian, and a Milanese all into the same room. Have them all give the definitive and one true correct way to pronounce a list of Italian food names.
All Italians are taught standard Italian in school and they all know how to speak it. What they speak as dialect or regional variations is something else. But yes, they do know what standard Italian is.
I’m confident that’s exactly what he means. FWIW, the standard British pronunciation is also ore-GAH-no, but Italians of my acquaintance say o-REG-ano (with a long middle vowel), like the US standard. As Dogface, it depends what region they come from, and how much they’ve been influenced by the pronunciation of people around them.
Vision4BG: since you’re new around here you might not realise how much hassle you’ll get from taking that tone. There’s nothing “wrong” with how the Yanks pronounce their words any more than there’s something “wrong” with how you or I might say them.
I believe missbunny was confused by the “R” stuck in the middle of “ora-GAR-no.” Keep in mind, we Americans pronounce our Rs. To us “ora-GAR-no” and “ora-GAH-no” are quite different (from each other, as well as from how we generally pronounce it, o-REG-a-no."
I don’t think there’s much agreement on the pronunciation of Caribbean in the United States. Either ca-RIBB-e-an or ca-ra-BEE-an. To American ears, the genuine Jamaican pronunciation goes either way. (Same thing with Hiroshima – hi-ro-SHEE-ma or hi-ROSH-a-ma. The genuiine Japanese pronunciation is neither of those, so we just have to pick one.)
While we’re on the subject, what’s with us Brits and Irish incorrectly spelling parmigiano as “parmesan” (PAR-mi-zan) and the Yanks apparently spelling it right, but pronouncing it “parmi-ZHAAN”?
ascenray: that R did confuse me - but I meant that I’ve never heard an Italian pronounce oregano with the accent on the third syllable. Let alone with a second R in the middle of it. The only way I’ve ever heard it - I grew up speaking Italian with first-generation parents/aunts/uncles, have been to Italy many times, and minored in it in college - is the same way Americans say it: o-REG-a-no. Of course they roll the R.
