[QUOTE=John Mace]
There’s a lot more to science than evolution. It probably represents less than 5% of a science curriculum, and most people forget it all anyway. Teaching creationism or ID in school is stupid, and it’s unconstitutional. But the idea that the US is somehow falling behind in science because of the vocal minority trying to get creationism taught in school doesn’t make much sense.
[/QUOTE]
But a lot more than 5% of biology.
I got myself on my district’s textbook review committee when biology texts were being updated. I’m happy to say that the committee of biology teachers did a good job, with all the books doing a decent job on evolution, and with the AP book including a full page interview with Dawkins. But, as you well know, we here in the Bay Area are all gay Commie atheists.
The real peril isn’t teaching ID, it’s the stickers on texts saying that evolution is “just a theory”, it’s publishers worried about including too much about it for the Texas market, it’s the whole anti-logic mindset. It’s not like it’s only furriners worrying about science education, I think Andy Grove is pretty concerned also.
I haven’t been visiting science grad departments, but I visit lots of EE ones, and Americans are a tiny minority these days, definitely as students and more and more as professors. We’re darn lucky people want to come here, or we’d be really screwed.
That’s the most depressing thing I’ve read today. I hope he works for a private school.
I gave up responding to him in those threads, since I guess I didn’t use kid gloves in responding to his idiocy.
Hurry back. This American, alas, has to agree with you on our attitudes in general. Not everyone is like that, but in a civilized country half of the Republican candidates would have been laughed out of the race.
[QUOTE=Voyager]
But a lot more than 5% of biology.
[/quote]
But the discussion was about “science”, not biology.
Yes, I’ve cited the K-12 CA curriculum in a number of threads, and evolution is covered in every grade that does biology. I really, really hate the idea of teaching ID or Creationism in school, but that isn’t why our science education is suffering in the US-- if it is indeed suffering at all. We have mediocre public schools, compared to the rest of the world, but the best (or close to it) university system.
Well, I’m not sure how much of it is luck, but yeah, we benefit from immigration. Just look at Andy Grove himself!
[QUOTE=wolf in second hand clothing]
I think it was plainly obvious how thoroughly you destroyed all of ITR’s arguments, I don’t see why it’s necessary to leave over his failure to get a clue.
[/QUOTE]
For the record, since it seems to be a (relatively) common misunderstanding, SentientMeat didn’t leave because of ITR champion’s posts. Rather, he had been a fairly avid poster, then life and work “got in the way” and led to a hiatus. About a month ago, he proudly announced that he and his wife had a second child; while on paternity leave, he was afforded the time to rejoin active posting (as stated in this thread). Now, that time is up, so he’s taking his leave once again.
Also, based on his tempered demeanor (easily established by even a cursory look at his posting history), I find it difficult to even conceive that his comment about “backwards American attitudes” was a general slight, but rather simple exasperation with one person. Not that he needs me to defend him – IMHO, he presents an object lesson as a fair, honest, knowledgable, and open-minded debater.
[QUOTE=Tristan]
True enough, I suppose, but in particular in threads aimed at yourself, you would be surprised to see how much actual conversation gets stirred up. Your viewpoints do tend to bring out extremes and force them to talk, one way or the other. It’s a shame you miss that.
[/QUOTE]
And if I started responding, none of that conversation would happen. It would be a dozen pages comparing me to Phelps ( because arguing with people on a message board is no better than protesting funerals, you know ), and invitations to bar brawls. Internet Tough Guy venom tends to feed on responses.
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]
Looking at that thread, you should’ve saved some love for mswas as well.
[/QUOTE]
Oh? Can you please show me in that thread where I was disrespectful to SentientMeat’s worldview?
SentientMeat was one of my favorite posters here too. I had no problems to speak of with him. He’s an executive atheist. You’re kind of a Middle-Management atheist.
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
That’s a lie. I simply don’t bother responding to Pit threads, because being the target of a bashfest by people who only want to throw insults and veiled threats of violence isn’t much fun, and accomplishes nothing.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
:rolleyes: Yes, I’m well known for challenging theists to barfights.
[/QUOTE]
It always turns into some variation on, “You’re stupid for not believing in God.”, though I’d love to go at it at the bar. I’d put the fear of God inta ya. ;p
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
Oh, come on. There were serious candidates for the Presidency (or at least the Republican nomination therefor) who raised their hand when the debate moderator asked “do any of you not believe in evolution”.
[/quote]
Yet none of them ever got even close to the nomination. (No, not even that Arkansas governor - I can’t even remember his name at the moment!)
But the thing is, as far as I can see, it is NOT a debate in 90-95% of the country; only in relatively small areas of a HUGE and incredibly diverse country where it gets a lot of publicity BECAUSE it’s so unusual and BECAUSE it’s so head-shakingly backwards to that 90-95% majority.
It’s like thinking that school shootings are a common phenomenon because of the publicity the few that do happen get. (And there are apparently folks in other countries who DO think that!)
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
That’s a lie. I simply don’t bother responding to Pit threads, because being the target of a bashfest by people who only want to throw insults and veiled threats of violence isn’t much fun, and accomplishes nothing.
[/QUOTE]
Well why not? You have no problem saying hateful things by your own admission. What do they accomplish?
Good grief. :rolleyes:
I can see where you would be scared in person.
[QUOTE=Leaper]
Yet none of them ever got even close to the nomination. (No, not even that Arkansas governor - I can’t even remember his name at the moment!)
[/QUOTE]
Except he never said he didn’t believe in Evolution. What he said was, “I don’t know.”, so in his case it was one of those times where an innocuous statement turned into a mediagenic gotcha moment. Kind of like ‘bitter’ or ‘I hate my Grandma’.
[QUOTE=Leaper]
But the thing is, as far as I can see, it is NOT a debate in 90-95% of the country; only in relatively small areas of a HUGE and incredibly diverse country where it gets a lot of publicity BECAUSE it’s so unusual and BECAUSE it’s so head-shakingly backwards to that 90-95% majority.
[/QUOTE]
I wish. 55% of Americans believe ID should be taught in schools according to a Harris poll. And it is easy to name several states where it has become an issue: I found Kansas, Georgia, Texas, Pennsylvania, Alabama, Arkansas, Ohio, Indiana - based on 5 minutes armed with Google.
[QUOTE=mswas]
Except he never said he didn’t believe in Evolution. What he said was, “I don’t know.”.
[/QUOTE]
He raised his hand in response to a question as to who did NOT believe in evolution.
[QUOTE=amarone]
I wish. 55% of Americans believe ID should be taught in schools according to a Harris poll. And it is easy to name several states where it has become an issue: I found Kansas, Georgia, Texas, Pennsylvania, Alabama, Arkansas, Ohio, Indiana - based on 5 minutes armed with Google.
[/QUOTE]
Has become an issue in what sense? Yeah, a lot of people answer “yes” to polling questions about ID being taught in schools, but few do anything about it. ID is not taught in US public schools. Period. If anyone does teach it, they are breaking the law.
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison]
Oh, I think Der Trihs has a very good grasp on the fear of God right now.
[/QUOTE]
If by that you mean “fear of being assaulted by his believers”, yes.