As I mentioned earlier…I dress kind of androgynous. But, when I’m out late and solo, whether I’m doing my job, hitting a bar or coffee shop…I flat out dress like a dude…to ward off creepsters. This isn’t working as much as I expected. Most often, I am indeed mistaken as a guy. You know, by the normal people. People who serve me my drinks/coffee without a hassle, most bar/shop patrons who are up for friendly chats, most of my customers who greet me when they are leaving their house. A lot of these people refer to me as “sir”, unless I tell them otherwise.
However, it’s the creepy men who know that I’m a woman, right away. The guys who ask me if I have a hotel room, whenever I’m at a bar or casino near a hotel. The 60 year old customer who walks up to my car and keep asking nosy questions about my dating life, 4 in the morning. The security guard who keeps asking me out. Guys who catcall me from their cars. They all instantly know/knew that I was a female.
Oh well, we can never be too safe. It just sucks that it seems that there is no way to stay off the radar from the people you want to avoid the most. It’s just so… creepy how creepsters are so aware of their their environment. I don’t think it’s a sixth sense, though. When you’re a predator or just a high-level nuisance, you take the time and energy in observing what’s going on in your surroundings and the people in them. This has always been said, but I’m just now witnessing it.
Are you sure this isn’t sampling bias? All the creepsters who think you’re a man don’t behave like that towards you because they think you’re a man, hence you they never bother you and you never categorize them as creepsters. Which means you only get that sort of behavior from the creepsters who think you’re a woman.
As the poster above me points out, if you do manage to trick a creepster, well, they’re just not going to act creepy unless they’re also into guys. Or perhaps your costume isn’t as convincing as you think, or they aren’t sure if you’re an effeminate guy, where your vocal tone or mannerisms or whatever are a give away and a lot of people just call you sir because they figure that’s how you want to be addressed since you’re dressed like that but the creeps just run with it since they don’t really have anything to lose.
Or moreso, some creeps just don’t care. I’ve seen guys hit on other guys seeming to think they were women and, even when saying they were guys and weren’t interested, took it as a defensive lie. If a guy is drunk enough, high enough, desperate enough, or some combination of those, he very well may jump at even the slimmest of opportunities.
You’re surprised that there are more creepsters out at 4am who are aggressively creepy? If I’m out at 4am at a bar or casino, I’m going to assume that the woman dressed like a man is just as or more creepy than I am, and act accordingly. Given the context of the dozens of threads you’ve started about subjects similar to this, I’m going to assume that you’re obliviously giving out a “I’m looking for casual companionship tonight” vibe, and suggest that instead of hoping that the masses of humanity change their behavior and reactions to you, that you instead change either your behavior or at least your expectations of how people react to you.
You’re a chick and you emit chick chemicals that get to dudes on a subconscious level. You may be mimicking a dude, but you’re not fooling anyone who is unencumbered by reason. Therefore, reasonable non-creepy guys (who think you’re a dude, don’t hit relentlessly on random strangers, or are asleep at 4:am) continue to leave you alone leaving you to deal only with unreasonable animals. You’re not going to win this one.
No I am not surprised that there are more creepsters out at 4am. That’s why I dress like a guy during this time, hopefully to deter them. I’m surprised about how this is not working with the most annoying ones. I wear baggy clothes, a hat, clunky shoes, walk masculine. Yet, some of these guys see right through it. Maybe I have a more feminine strut than I realize
Yeah, obviously I am giving out some sort of vibe, from strangers AND people that I know. Many family members and friends assume that I’m sort of “loose” and a bit kinky. I guess I fell asleep in I’m Looking for Casual Companionship Tonight - 101. I just don’t know how this is happening, with my dress and mannerisms. I don’t know how much more I can desexualize my appearance and body language. I don’t know which behaviors to change.
It’s entirely possible that the recognition factor is completely 50/50 between respectful and creepy folks. It’s just that respectful folks are going to address you, respectfully, as you appear to wish to be addressed.
It is very true though that the creeps seem to know when we are feeling vulnerable and are just all over us at the worst of times. Erik Larsen (author of “The Devil in the White City”) pointed this out beautifully. He said that the particular talent of the psychopath is in identifying vulnerable people. The key word here is “predator.”
Are there any weapons that are legal to carry in your area? Mace perhaps? Whatever you might choose, get some training in how to use it. When you feel more powerful, they’ll sense that too and leave you alone.
Any changes to your appearance that you think are “desexualizing” you are clearly not working. For many, any alteration to your outward gender appearance is going to draw more attention to your gender, not less - even if it’s to make you appear more masculine. Next time you’re not out at 4am at a bar, let’s say 9am at a coffee shop, look around, and see what women who aren’t being accosted by creepers are wearing. Find clothes similar to that, and try this experiment again.
A human vagina, even a recently scrubbed one, has a scent to it that could be identified by any guy, blindfolded, who has ever had access to one and who has a functioning olphactory system. Now granted, you’d need to be pretty close to a freshly scrubbed one to catch the scent on a conscious level and think, “Hey! Pussy!” But a couple hours after a shower I’d be willing to bet it’s detectable on a subliminal level that would escape measurement in a laboratory setting. So Mr. Creep might key in on a particlar, otherwise ambiguous target, in response to a subtle move, facial/hip structure, or scent as weak as “Hm…pussy?” that even he is not fully aware of, and decide the situation warrants further investigation. Eliciting a single vocal response from the target would probably be enough to resolve the doubt. Either the pitch or tone of the voice would be feminine, or the response itself would not be a masculine one.
Unfortunately this just ain’t true. Being a guy who is particularly fond of “that smell”, I was rather disappointed when it turned out the ex was essentially scent free.
Have you tried dousing yourself in Axe? When I smell a person who has used Axe, either after bathing or instead of, I am positive that he is a he. Bonus: it will keep women away in droves, too.
Why are customers approaching you in your car at 4am? I think I’m missing something here.
Nasty dudes hit on anything that’s vaguely female. If you’re a but unsure about yourself, maybe showing up in your body language, that will increase them doing that.
If you just want people to not hit on you, then maybe something like the aforementioned dousing with horrible aftershave would help. Or it this more about gender dysphoria?
I kinda like that smell, but would be a bit disturbed to sense it across a train station platform.
It’s actually near-impossible to disguise your basic gender with clothing without a surprising degree of effort unless you’re VERY androgynous to begin with (before disputing this, c’mon, I’ve had to cross-dress in stage acting. Shit is HARD.)
Creepy guys at 4am are not concerned with your mannerisms, dress, or any other aspect of your behavior or appearance. Creepy guys at 4AM care that you’re a woman of the species homo sapiens and you’re within earshot.
I am pretty sure **Inigo’**s suggestions are basically idiosyncratic here-- my experience doesn’t match his in the slightest.
So, come on. Post a video of how you dress and act while you are trying to be androgynous, and then we can tell you everything…
In other words, without more information, there are too many variables for why this is happening, and we can’t help. My best advice is to try what I do. I don’t know if it will work for anyone else, but all I do is look angry when I want to be left alone, and it always works.
I’m really surprised that you’ve somehow managed to convince yourself that most people aren’t clued into the fact that you are woman. I (and many people dealing with the public) will refer to someone by what they want to represent as. It doesn’t mean that I (or most people for that matter) don’t know you’re packing a vagina.
Humans are extremely well attuned to male vs female physical traits. No matter how androgynously she dresses a woman, if they are up close and personal, is generally pretty damned easy to detect if she’s fronting as man. At a distance you might have more of a shot.
The upshot is that people are being deferential to your representational desires. You are not fooling nearly as many people as you think.
