[QUOTE=winterhawk11]
I would recommend wowhead.com over Thottbot. They have a very nice, clean interface, things are easy to find, and the comments are generally a bit more intelligent and helpful. YMMV, but ever since I discovered Wowhead I never go to Thottbot anymore.
[/QUOTE]
Never heard of it. Will try it when I get home.
[QUOTE=H3Knuckles]
First of all, sorry for the length of this. Secondly, if you’re more interested in taking it easy and learning as you go (highly reccomended), you can pretty much skip from the break to the PS. Though the stuff in between is a bunch of common sense, research, and experience that’s applicable even to a more casual player.
[/QUOTE]
(I love the advice - the length is not a problem!)
grin That is my plan. I’d like to learn as I go/have fun though I’ve been reading up a bit to make sure I have a good plan in front of me - I’d hate to screw up my character and find that I’d made it in a way that doesn’t suit my style.
I’ll look into those sites tonight. 
People have mentioned raiding before - I’m a little nervous about that, but grouping as priest is where I would eventually like to go.
I’d heard about Holy and Shadow before - I like the idea of making a Holy Priest, but don’t think I could solo at all if I couldn’t find a groups so I may have to take some shadow, (if that’s possible.)
[QUOTE=orinoko]
Each class has it’s own specific challenges and are all “difficult,” so to speak, to play well. To be perfectly honest though, if you aren’t downright neurotic about the calculus of game mechanics, that may never be you. It’s okay, its a game. Have a good time. :)-t
[/QUOTE]
I’m not, so I’m taking this advice! 
[QUOTE=Biggirl]
If you have no sense of direction like me, a co-ord mod is essential (that way, you don’t get lost for too long in Elwynn). I’ve got Cosmos (or whatever it is now) but there are others. Also, if you are stuck on a quest a good place to go is thottbot.com.
But really, co-ordinates make the game so much more fun and a lot less frustrating.
[/QUOTE]
I’m going to look into Cosmos tonight as well! It’s not really ‘cheating’, right? I’m okay with suffering a bit if it gives a richer game experience in the end, but my directional abilities are pathetic - I run halfway across the zone before realizing I’m going the wrong way! Plus, it’s really bad in the mines (which I assume are like most dungeons I’ll encounter - two twists in and I’m not sure where the exit is…)
By the way, someone mentioned a study about percentages of classes or races on Realms - does anyone know where that is? That would be fascinating to look into!
[QUOTE=Lady of the Lake]
On the plus, I’ve found the Wikepedia list of acronyms, so that may help! Though do people *really * use the term ‘pokemon’?
[/QUOTE]
This thread was the first time I’ve heard it, and I’ve been playing WoW for a year and a half. Important acronyms for chat:
LFG = Looking for group
LFM = Looking for more
G2G or GTG: Good to go or Got to go (confusing, no?)
OMW = On my way
FP = Flight point (or sometimes flight path)
DPS = Damage per second
DOT = Damage over time
Learn the abbreviations for the zones and instances you’re interested in. There are a few confusing ones. At low level, DM = Deadmines, but at high level, DM = Dire Maul. Some players call Deadmines “VC” instead (named for the final boss, Van Cleef).
[QUOTE=Lady of the Lake]
I like the sound of the Warlock! Lots of choices, and it sounds flexible, plus it seems as if it would nice and sparkly… (and, I kinda want a Succubus, or that big black floaty thing (the evil genie?)) Though, from reading your description, I think I’d have to have a strategy guide printed out nearby!
[/QUOTE]
Speaking from experience: It’s quite annoying to summon that thing (it’s called a voidwalker) when you’re a gnome warlock. It’s constantly in the way and you can’t see a darned thing.
[QUOTE=Lady of the Lake]
Regarding the trade channel: Ah, that does make sense! They should fix that, as well as making the male faces cuter…I feel sorry for you guys!
P.S. Tonight the talk was all about Chuck Norris (though they threw in a little Jackie Chan) - it’s like the sdmb is prophetic or something…
[/QUOTE]
When the chat gets really annoying, it’s usually just a few kids participating. Use “/ignore” to filter them out and everything gets more pleasant.
[QUOTE=H3Knuckles]
It costs a bit to respec (reassign your talents, it’s done at any class trainer, and gets more expensive each time you do it), but you should be able to easily afford the first time during your 20’s, and should have a better idea what you want then too.
[/QUOTE]
They’ve change the cost structure on this. It’s not based on how many times you respec, but on how often you respec. If you only do it a few times a year, the price stays reasonable. Also, some major upgrades (like the one right before Burning Crusade) require you to respec, and that’s free.
[QUOTE=smiling bandit]
I was wondering what people might feel about the Hunter talents, actually. Inn the Beast Mastery Tree, I went with Improved Aspect of the Hawk over the increased HP, but both abilities pretty much stink. (This is very irritating, because while there’s some more advanced stuff that’s nice in Beast Master, the basic two talents are laughable. Improved Aspect of the Hawk might occaisionally net you some extra damage, maybe an extra shot or two, but only rarely and only in long fights. I can see it might be somewhat good in endgame raids, but even then won’t make enough difference ot matter. The Improved HP might sometimes very rarely be handy for pets. But both the pet and eprsonal bonuses will rarely save you being just to small. Annoying, that, because I need to put points into that tree. Those Blizzard folks sure know how to just cut you with a knife!
[/QUOTE]
Honestly, that might be your impression, but don’t underestimate just how much of a bonus 5% HP increase is. Many of the best and most widely recommended talents are small stat buffs like that.
As a general rule, Beast Mastery is recognized as the best tree for early hunters to invest in. The overall improvements in survivability and the effectiveness of one’s pet are much more usefull during the first 30 or so levels.
[QUOTE=Lady of the Lake]
(I love the advice - the length is not a problem!)
grin That is my plan. I’d like to learn as I go/have fun though I’ve been reading up a bit to make sure I have a good plan in front of me - I’d hate to screw up my character and find that I’d made it in a way that doesn’t suit my style.
I’ll look into those sites tonight.
People have mentioned raiding before - I’m a little nervous about that, but grouping as priest is where I would eventually like to go.
I’d heard about Holy and Shadow before - I like the idea of making a Holy Priest, but don’t think I could solo at all if I couldn’t find a groups so I may have to take some shadow, (if that’s possible.)
[/QUOTE]
While I’m primarily responding to you, I’m playing it safe with these posts and being overly explicit so anyone seeking info can hopefully benefit. I wanted to get that out because I’m going to state a few things I think you already know, based on earlier conversation in this thread.
It’s actually kind of hard to screw up your character; getting better gear is pretty straightforward till you get to the higher levels, just read your stat descriptions and you’ll know which equipment bonuses you’ll want. Other than that, it’s just talents, which can always be retrained, for a sum. So if you don’t get it right the first time, it’s not a big deal.
The thing about raiding is this; if you find a good crew, it’s really fun to go into a place and take on dragons, giants, etc, in teams ranging from 10-40 people (depending on which raid “dungeon”). Raiding also gives you access to special super-powerful armor sets and weapons that look great (once you’ve completed the set). However, it’s very time intensive, as the average raid takes a few hours each run, and people can run raids dozens of times to complete a set of gear (if that’s what they’re after). Furthermore, raiding groups are often their own guilds, and frequently set pretty high demands of any players looking to join. They usually divy up the item gains usin a semi-random system that is heavily biased towards players who’ve been in the group contributing to raids longer.
And trust me, you can solo with any build. It might take a good while longer to get there than it will for the damage-focused types, but even the most dedicated support class/build (basically a Holy Priest) can do it with only the occasional bit of help needed.
Grouping on the way to 40, and even afterwards, is often more a case of clearing out instanced* dungeons in teams of 5-8 players. This is either a good opportunity to seek out new players in games by taking chances with pick-up groups (“pugs”) or just hang with some friends you know.
*For anyone who doesn’t know, an instance is, basically, everytime a group or solo player enters a certain dungeon/castle/cave, it creates a little pocket dimension of the dungeon just for that group’s members, until they all leave (though in WoW, it doesn’t reset unless the team leader does it through the questlog, or you leave the group, so groups can exit, and re-enter without losing their progress). This was created in older MMO’s (before WoW), because groups of players would often camp a location where a treasure chest appeared or a boss enemy that dropped good gear, which had the side-effect of denying anyone else on the same server/realm the chance to do the quest.
[QUOTE=InvisibleWombat]
They’ve change the cost structure on this. It’s not based on how many times you respec, but on how often you respec. If you only do it a few times a year, the price stays reasonable. Also, some major upgrades (like the one right before Burning Crusade) require you to respec, and that’s free.
[/QUOTE]
Heh, I knew about the free respecs of course. I didn’t know they’d changed the pricing structure on respecs, because I haven’t had to do one in a while. It’s probably my background in console RPG’s or something (Final Fantasy Tactics is hands-down my all-time favorite game), but I honestly get as much fun out of planning builds as I do playing the game. It’s some weird compulsion of mine, but I waste inordinate amounts of time in tactical and strategic games planning ahead, I just love tweaking complex game engines to see what I can get out of them. I don’t always just go for the best, either. I often have a specific vision of what I’m shooting for, and that aesthetic comes first, optimization second.
Games like Battletech and Armored Core (where you pilot giant, incredibly customizable robot war machines) can basically take over my free time for months at a stretch. I still play the aforementioned FFT 11 years after it’s release on a semi-annual basis trying this or that team build. My guildmates in WoW are probably wondering where I am because I’ve spent the last month playing Pokemon (which has endless team-building possibilities) almost exclusively. In addition to the 16 WoW characters I have (every race besides Gnome, every class, and both male and female characters for several races), I also have twenty-seven City of Heroes/Villains characters (15 heroes, 12 villains)! :eek:
lol, didn’t mean to go on a tangent there, but I’m a verbose kind of poster. shrugs
[QUOTE=Lady of the Lake]
By the way, someone mentioned a study about percentages of classes or races on Realms - does anyone know where that is? That would be fascinating to look into!
[/QUOTE]
Ah, I see you’ve been to the Barrens… (Barrens chat is legendary, even in WoW.)
Re: Hunter talents, Imp AotH isn’t bad, but you won’t want it later (60+) when you get Aspect of the Viper for mana regen. As H3Knuckles said, the Hitpoints from Endurance Training add up, especially at higher levels when you have more hitpoints… my 70 Hunter alt with no real instance gear has 7300 hitpoints, more than 300 of that is from ET, my pet probably picks up 500 or more. It may not sound like a lot, but every bit adds up, and the extra hitpoints can be especially helpful when soloing.
As a solo Hunter, I’ve been very fond of 17/41/3 for Imp Mend Pet, Silencing Shot, and Hawk Eye, starting with points in Beast, and dropping the last three levels in Survival (increased range allows you to get out of range of nasty stuff like mana burn and AE’s). This build works really well for groups, as well, although at 70 you might end up with a more Survival-heavy build for increased trap durations for CC (crowd control) in groups.
The biggest thing to know with Talents is to pick a focus and specialise. Don’t put one or two points in multiple talents in all three trees. There are some talents you might want only 1-2 points in, but usually it’s better to max out. Generally speaking, you’ll want a build that gets a 31 point talent, with a 41 point talent or a 21 point talent, as they tend to be the most game-changing.
BTW, I’ll 2nd (3rd?) WoWHead over Thott - they’re owned by the same people these days, but WoWHead is just a more comprehensive site with much better layout and search features.
[QUOTE=Lady of the Lake]
(Seriously though, it’s pretty sad…I realize I’m lost, look at the map, head in the right direction, see someone fighting, buff them out of the duty that is a priest, heal them for the same reason, realize that while I’ve been doing *that * two wolves and a mud thing are on me and then I die…only to start all over again.)
[/QUOTE]
One thing to watch out for when throwing out charity buffs is that, when you buff or heal someone in combat, the thing they’re fighting reacts to that as if you’d just attacked it. If you see a guy fighting three wolves, and give him a heal, odds are good that one or two of those wolves will turn around and try to tear your throat out.
Which reminds me, has the concept of aggro been discussed in here yet? It’s an important part of the game dynamic, particularly if you’re playing a support class.
Aggro hasn’t really been discussed here, but could easily be its own thread. Then again, my primary was an Arms/Prot Warrior and fighting my own group for aggro was the hardest thing about the job, so I could probably go on for pages, heh.
In general, aggro or “threat” can be thought of as an invisible, dynamic list unique to every monster in the game. Every mob (monster) you interact with has its own threat list. Simply being in proximity to an un-engaged hostile mob will get you on its threat list (like when you get too close to a wolf and it comes over to attack you). Once you are on a threat list, every action you take - attacking the mob, buffing or healing someone else who is attacking the mob, or damaging the mob via damage shield (such as Druid thorns, or a Warlock Imp’s fireshield) or AE (area of effect) spell - advances your position on the threat list relative to anyone else on the threat list.
For example; you pull a mob via proximity and have 10 threat, but take no further action against the mob. A Priest heals you for 200 hitpoints, advancing their position on the threat list by 200 points. The mob will then turn to attack the Priest, who is now highest on the threat list. In order to force the mob to attack you again, you will have to advance your position on the threat list by 110% of the Priest’s threat by healing the Priest or damaging the mob. In other words, you need to advance your position on the threat list by 210 points via damage or healing, in order to regain the mob’s attention.
In a situation like the one Miller mentioned, when someone is fighting three mobs; if they have only done damage to one of them, their position on the threat list will vary from one mob to the next. Mob A being damaged probably has several hundred to several thousand threat built up on it, while mob B and C only have the initial proximity threat. In that situation, any action you take will likely cause mob B and/or C to come eat your face. There are some other odd situations which can cause you to gain threat from mobs others are fighting, and possibly “pull aggro” (i.e., be at the top of the threat list), but they’re rare, so I’ll skip explanation in the name of brevity (ha!).
Some classes have methods of increasing their threat, while others have methods of decreasing their threat. Because of the damage Elite mobs can put out, and the multiple mobs which come in instance pulls, WoW is designed to have a Tank (appropriately geared/spec’d Warrior, Paladin or Druid) control the mobs in a pull and take all the damage. Tank classes have innate threat bonuses on some stances, spells, and abilities, and abilities commonly referred to as Taunt, which forces them to the top of the threat list on one (Druid Growl, Warrior Taunt) or three (Paladin Righteous Defense) target(s). However, these abilities have cooldowns and it is generally considered bad to “taunt tank” (rely on Taunt to control aggro).
Aggro control is a delicate balance at the high end, with everyone having to be conscious of the threat they are generating. Tanks have to make sure they are using the right abilities to generate as much threat as possible. DPS (short for Damage Per Second, referring to damage-dealing classes) needs to make sure they give the tank a second to establish threat on the primary target before cutting loose with high-damage abilities, and continually balance their damage output against their position on the threat list. A healer needs to make sure they start with small heals and heal-over-time spells to avoid spiking up on the threat list before the tank has time to establish threat on all the mobs in a pull. For most groups, everyone in the group needs to work together to focus fire one mob down while the tank controls threat on all the rest of the mobs. UI mods like Omen and KLH are popular for helping to monitor threat, although they rely on player estimations, and there is no official way of seeing the real threat list.
[QUOTE=Words on the Interweb]
For example; you pull a mob via proximity and have 10 threat, but take no further action against the mob. A Priest heals you for 200 hitpoints, advancing their position on the threat list by 200 points. The mob will then turn to attack the Priest, who is now highest on the threat list. In order to force the mob to attack you again, you will have to advance your position on the threat list by 110% of the Priest’s threat by healing the Priest or damaging the mob. In other words, you need to advance your position on the threat list by 210 points via damage or healing, in order to regain the mob’s attention.
[/QUOTE]
nitpick
Assuming no threat reduction talents (which can be assumed at low levels), a heal of 200 creates 100 threat. Also, if you’re at ranged, you need 250 additional points of threat, and if you’re at melee range, you’ll need the stated 210.
/nitpick
The other interesting, yet minor, factoid is that recently, “Tanking” has become an increasingly more dynamic phenomenon. For instance, in AQ20, there was a mob (mobile object, aka monster) that was quite easy for a hunter or warlock to tank. Or, the first boss in Gruul’s Lair requires all manners of alternative tanks. Other than that, there’s also the possibility of not tanking at all (Shade of Aran, Buru), for kiting or other reasons.
[QUOTE=orinoko]
nitpick
Assuming no threat reduction talents (which can be assumed at low levels), a heal of 200 creates 100 threat. Also, if you’re at ranged, you need 250 additional points of threat, and if you’re at melee range, you’ll need the stated 210.
/nitpick
[/QUOTE]
You’re right; I wasn’t meaning to represent actual threat numbers in terms of what a heal for a specific amount would do, and should have specified as such or double-checked actual values. And I always forget about ranged v. melee % differences, even after running a Balance/Resto Druid in heroics & raids, I still always have 10% stuck in my head, even though I know (usually when reminded) it’s higher (30%) for ranged. For the number crunchers, Aggro and Threat via WoWWiki, which explains the hard numbers better and more succinctly than I can.
I’ve gotta say that this is the first time that someone’s managed to explain aggro management and it’s actually dinged in my head (I’m an alt-whore and actually stopped playing and deleted my chars for a long while, so I’ve never gotten to the point where I need to be highly concerned about aggro).
Those are some good explanations we’ve got going on here. Kudos guys.
[QUOTE=Words on the Interweb]
… even after running a Balance/Resto Druid in heroics & raids…
[/QUOTE]
This alone is any punishment you deserve. I mean, really.
So really, there are 2 types of players. Casual and hardcore. If you are looking for the hardcore rought, and want the best of the best gear, take my advice from the earlier post. The game is fun solo as well…it’s just not me IMHO.
[QUOTE=Lady of the Lake]
I’m going to look into Cosmos tonight as well! It’s not really ‘cheating’, right? I’m okay with suffering a bit if it gives a richer game experience in the end, but my directional abilities are pathetic - I run halfway across the zone before realizing I’m going the wrong way! Plus, it’s really bad in the mines (which I assume are like most dungeons I’ll encounter - two twists in and I’m not sure where the exit is…)
By the way, someone mentioned a study about percentages of classes or races on Realms - does anyone know where that is? That would be fascinating to look into!
[/QUOTE]
Whoop. I totally didn’t catch this, and I think it deserves a response.
I avoid Cosmos like the plague. It consists of a whole list of mods that may or may not affect your playing style, and will certainly affect your gameplay.
On map mods.
There’s a couple of things to know. If you tend to get lost in the outside world, there’s really not much you can do about that. The game has a built-in map. If you’re following it poorly, no amount of modification can assist that. What IS availible to you is simply additional ways to store information. For instance, if you were perhaps writing down locations on a paper pad every time you found a dude with an exclaimation point over his head so you can remember where to return the quest to, then a mod can make that easier by letting you physically (or virtually?) placing an icon on the in-game map itself. You can do this with the base CTmod, or any number of map mods. You can do this for any number of things, such as herbs, mines, etc. But again, if you’re not already used to using your map, or aren’t already familiar with how to get around the local terrain, its not going to help a lot.
Instances are slightly different. They’re not wide open spans of area, like the outside world. There is no real sense of “being lost” when you’re inside the instance itself, you’re simply inside the instance. For the most part, as long as you’re killing stuff, you’re headed towards some end goal, rather than in circles. Additionally, many instances have logical progression. Flip the switch. Some dude appears. Kill dude. Move past dude. And so forth and so on. The problem with this is, again, having a map will mean diddly squat unless you, for the most part, already know where you’re going. You’re really, truly, better off simply not knowing and exploring. If you’re still dead set on getting a map-type guide of an instance, Atlas is far and away the best. For the low low price of 99.95, you can also get Atlasloot, which will show you exactly what drops off of which mob in any given instance (including the ones you’ve never been to). But use with caution. This may introduce you to a whole new level of crazy-- where you actually make a wish-list of loot and methodically set out to acquire it.
As for the mines, they are surprisingly easy. For the most part, they follow a few pre-set models, with the exception of mines just outside of instances (deadmines, maradon, uldaman), all of which are annoyingly complex. Go through them a few times though, and they typically clear up. In any case spend a few hours in a prefab mine with your map zoomed out as far as it can go, and pretty soon you’ll recognize which dark corners can have chests or mining deposits, and where the quest mob should be if you were looking for one.
As far as recommended interface mods, I’d minimally suggest a bar mod of any type. I personally used ctmod bars, which fit a number of my needs. However, at the lower level, you really don’t have enough buttons to fit a whole list of bars. Additionally, it’ll be pretty tough to develop the technical knowledge to know for certain which skills are better than others, and thus should be placed in a more convenient spot (this isn’t to suggest te that this skill is one you should develop, but it’s certainly on the list of useful metrics). Moreover, even the default WoW interface has basically everything you should need to take you all the way to end-game raiding and then some. With the exception of scrolling combat text and a titanpanel (two informative modifications), my screen looks pretty much like the default one.
All in all, you don’t need mods. You probably shouldn’t try and learn how to play with mods, especially. Only get mods once you’ve mastered the basics and are finally looking for ways to streamline your game.
[QUOTE=orinoko]
This alone is any punishment you deserve. I mean, really.
[/QUOTE]
But… I like healing! I spec’d Nature’s Swiftness/mana-battery (which is better for healing longevity than full Resto), not Oomkin. Not a bad spec for DPS/solo, either.
I was going to keep mum on Cosmos (the ultimate bloatware, imo - the Windows of UI mods, haha), as I really don’t care for it either, preferring FuBar and other ACE mods. Still, Cosmos isn’t too bad for a new player who doesn’t really understand how to set up a UI, or what they might need/want in a UI.
Great description of aggro, Words on the Interweb. Some of those were hard lessons to learn when I started playing. I played all DPS for the first 6 or 8 months, and understood well that if I hit too hard, the mobs would come and stomp my poor squishy body into the mud. I absolutely love running with good tanks that can grab and hold aggro, because my frost mage deals a lot of damage. It’s an exercise in frustration to run with a lower-level, badly-specced, or badly-played tank. I might as well not even be along if I can’t let loose and deal out damage.
When I started my priest, it came as quite a shock that healing somebody or buffing somebody would get me killed. I learned quickly to put shields and HOT (healing-over-time) spells on my companions before combat began so there was no threat generated.
[QUOTE=tanstaafl]
Ah, I see you’ve been to the Barrens… (Barrens chat is legendary, even in WoW.)
[/QUOTE]
Jinx even has a t-shirt that says “I survived the Barrens chat”
[QUOTE=orinoko]
Instances are slightly different. They’re not wide open spans of area, like the outside world. There is no real sense of “being lost” when you’re inside the instance itself, you’re simply inside the instance.
(snip)
As for the mines, they are surprisingly easy. For the most part, they follow a few pre-set models, with the exception of mines just outside of instances (deadmines, maradon, uldaman), all of which are annoyingly complex. Go through them a few times though, and they typically clear up.
[/QUOTE]
I couldn’t disagree more. I never get lost in the wide-open spaces. Between the mini-map and a quick press of the M key to see where I am on the big map, I’m always oriented. Mines and dungeons drive me nuts. I see my target (party member, mining node, whatever) on the mini-map, and I see myself, but one is higher than the other. I go in circles trying to get higher (or lower–you can’t tell which), and there’s no big map to help. I got killed in a mine once and spent 10 minutes trying to find my corpse.
[QUOTE=orinoko]
All in all, you don’t need mods. You probably shouldn’t try and learn how to play with mods, especially. Only get mods once you’ve mastered the basics and are finally looking for ways to streamline your game.
[/QUOTE]
Overall, I’d agree, but there are exceptions. Coordinates make life much easier–especially if you’re hunting for something specific and you use Thottbot, WoWhead, or WoWWiki to find out where it is. Similarly, I like the other info TitanBar keeps at the top of the screen for me at all times. How many empty bag slots I have, what my repair level is, and so forth. Gatherer is fantastic for mining or herbalism. It’s not needed, but it’s very handy.