adult virginity is not a choice
I am not a virgin, but pretty much incel (and married, find your own jokes in there). Can’t say I disagree with you. There was a thread on this recently. I made a comment about the movie “Hocus Pocus.” Maybe I took things more than I should, but I remember feeling shamed by society/media to be a virgin when I was only 13-14 years old (running “joke” in the movie about a barely pubescent boy being a virgin), let alone an adult.
It’s ridiculous that ‘virginity’ is even a thing anymore. It’s heteronormative and honestly isn’t anyone’s business whether or not someone has had sex with another person. Even the definition of sex is different from person to person. You do you.
Not quibbling about your point, but what does this statement mean?
I think it means it’s not for lack of desire on his part, but it takes two to tango.
If you’re a woman, they shame you for not being a virgin.
If an adult tells me they’re a virgin, I’m usually impressed by their willpower. Why would anyone shame a virgin?
But isn’t that true at any and all ages?
I still don’t understand how it’s not a choice. Also, can someone give an example of this virgin shaming?I mean, I know it’s the butt of some jokes but no more so than anything else that gets made fun of (is it?) Not trying to be unsympathetic but I guess I just need more info.
By “not a choice”, as previously stated, it takes two to tango. Are you familiar with that phrase?
I don’t think that counts, at least for losing-virginity purposes.
I think, at least as far as men are concerned, there’s a presumption that they’re doing everything within their power, fair and foul, to get laid, and that if they haven’t managed that by a certain age, that there’s some degree of bumbling incompetence or extreme oddness preventing them from at least shagging some girl with abysmal self-esteem, or tricking some woman into it somehow. Or they’re considered to be some sort of religious zealot.
There’s not any real room in that sort of thinking for someone who doesn’t want to go around nailing women who don’t like themselves, or who just have a different conception of sex and virginity than everyone else. So there’s a certain amount of mockery and derision involved; I wouldn’t call it “shaming” per-se, in that it’s rarely overtly aimed at any one person, but rather at the general class of late virgins in general.
Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn’t. Either way, I don’t think it’s something that should be shamed
I agree that it isn’t anyone else’s business, but what exactly is heteronormative about virginity? If one is so narrow in one’s definition that it must be PIV to be virginity, then sure. However, I’d say that sex qualifies as whatever those engaging in the activity consider it to be, within reason. If a gay, lesbian, trans, intersexed, or other type of person claims they’ve had sex, then as far as I’m concerned, they’re free to consider themselves no virgins. Hell, even a straight individual can consider themselves not a virgin for things other than PIV as far as I care.
See also
Why is virgin-shaming still acceptable in society?
I actually think that most virgin shamers are acting on the belief that it isn’t a choice. Either way, I agree that it is both gross and surprisingly common.
On preview: bump’s post matched my college experience, but that’s not particularly helpful to the virgins hearing the mocking or to our cultural expectations as a whole. I also think that there is a smaller, meaner subset that does actively mock virgin men as unmanly in a way that is destructive.
It IS a choice. If one is determined not to be a virgin any longer, there are prostitutes available.
Why do people shame people for anything? Because it makes them feel good about themselves. People like believing that there’s at least one class of people that deserve to be ridiculed.
“I might be X (fill in some negative quality), but at least I’m not Y (fill in some other negative quality).”
Also, a lot of people have a need to rely on a couple of indicators when evaluating someone’s worth. I frequently hear people say something like “So-and-so can’t be all THAT bad, since they have X going for them.” X could be anything from having a good job to having a SO. In a hypersexualized and hypersocial society, of course virginity connotes lack of status.
It puzzles me why anyone would ask the question you’re asking. It seems fairly obvious to me that virginity carries a stigma. It also seems fairly obvious why this would be.
As far as adult virginity not being a choice…I don’t know how this relates to whether it should be shameful. I have never had sex, but I am confident that I could if I wanted to. Does this mean I deserve more ridicule than someone who is trying his darndest and keeps failing? Seems to me that by exclaiming “I can’t help it!”, one is only perpetuating the stigma.
“Happy Mother’s Day (now we all know you put out)”
Thanks, GreenElf; simply repeating Omar’s is super helpful but that dash of snark really drives the point home.
What is throwing me, I guess, is the way the OP stated it, like it’s some incurable affliction
that he has no control over. In fact, I thought he was making a joke because it just sounds odd.
I think there’s greater choice involved than some involuntary adult virgins would like to admit.
You (generic “you”) choose not to have sex with a prostitute. Or a woman with low self esteem ( now who’s shaming?) or one you’ve tricked in to it. So you want a high-quality partner. You have standards, and that’s why you have no choice.
And here’s why that’s nonsense: if you aren’t attracting the kind of mate you desire, you absolutely have the choice to improve yourself by any means so the you CAN attract the type you are looking for. Whether that’s physical conditioning, education, expanding your interests or social circle, or seeking professional counseling for mental or emotional hurdles.
It by some chance you’ve already gone down that checklist and crossed off everything, and you STILL are an involuntary virgin, then you can face that you’re not being realistic about the type of partner you can attract. And at that point, you’re going to have to reevaluate your mating criteria.
It’s not the tango; it’s the horizontal bop.