JC: Why did you close this thread in GD?

Thank you to those who have spoken in my defense.

For the record, my post wasn’t meant to personally insult the poster but rather to poke fun at the over-the-top length of his post (in which he defends raping little kids).

My bad, I guess. :dubious:

I will admit that I don’t feel the least bit of regret (on the contrary, I felt some small amount of amusement) for receiving this warning or for my part in the thread in question being closed. It was definitely NOT my intent to do so, but I’m okay with it and I have no desire to contest it.

Concerns from other posters about this moderation are certainly valid, though, and I hope they are addressed to their satisfaction.

I came to this forum to see if anyone started a thread yet about this yet. I agree with Morgenstern’s points. Yeah, the wall of text was annoying, but at least five of us were responding to it civilly. Spending the time to discuss a topic here only to find that the discussion has been shut down is much more annoying than a wall of text.

Considering the number of threads we have had about closing zombies in ATMB, I’m surprised to find anyone who has been here any length of time is unaware that we frequently close them. The main exception is in GQ and Comments, where it’s OK to bump a zombie to add new information.

I really can’t see how “this guy really wants to fuck some kids” can be construed as an insult when directed at a guy who really wants to fuck kids. Is the objection to the word fuck? This guy really wants to make love with children hardly seems more appropriate.

Smoking pot cannot be discussed because it’s illegal but kiddie fucking can be because it’s intellectually interesting?

Kiddie fucking can be discussed but the term kiddie fucker, however objectively true, gets a warning.

Kiddie fucking and racism, yes. Kiddie fucker and racist, no.:smack:

I don’t know what this means, but I can’t say i really care either.

Emiliana, I was about to post something along those lines, but you beat me to it. Let’s take something far less objectionable and controversial (much less than my fruit example above)-someone talks about how much they love Led Zeppelin, and another poster comes along and simply echoes that back-“Oh you like Zep, huh?” If the general topic here isn’t considered objectionable, and has been stated by the mods above to be a valid point of discussion, then how would a simple echoing statement like that be worth a warning?

What rule, exactly, was broken here? So far I’ve seen mods dance around the issue, but none have made it clear yet why this deserved anything more than a note, if that. Senor Beef at least got a detailed explanation-and in that case I agree he deserved it. I hope this is being talked about in the mod loop.

The thread in question had been Zombified once earlier without being closed, so from my standpoint I just wanted to know why the thread was closed this time. As it is, JC mention 3 reasons for closing it, none of which was expressed in the post he used to close it. We’re not mind readers, and it would seem to be a simple courtesy for the mods to explain why they close a thread when they do. That’s all. It’s like the thread we’re currently discussing with Senior Beef. There are, perhaps, other things that can be read into a post, but in the end, we only have the post itself and the plain meaning from reading it.

There’s no evidence that he wants to fuck kids. The comment reminded me of people calling straight people that are for gay rights closet homosexuals to their face and in front of others. There are intentions behind it. And they’re not as innocent as expressing surprise that someone really likes Zeppelin.

Strong indications, but no real evidence, yes.

I disagree. The same way I would disagree that someone that is expressing that homosexual sex is normal is not a “strong” indication that he/she is gay. But it’s irrelevant. “No real evidence” is enough. Any long time poster should know you can’t call someone here someone that really wants to fuck some kids especially when they haven’t even made that clear.

This is a bizarre analogy. I’d be astonished if Henry Miller was a non-pedophile defending pedophile rights. Perhaps there is insufficient evidence that he himself wants to fuck kids. But he’s definitely saying that kids are fuckable.

Huh, I honestly believed he had said he wants to fuck kids, and assumed that was why the thread was closed. But I just actually READ his wall-o-text, and he doesn’t actually say that. In fact, I wonder if he might have enjoyed sex as a child and resents that everyone tells him he was traumatized.

He also conflates the taboo against adult having sex with children with a taboo against any sexual activity by a child. He wrote at length (well, everything he wrote was at length) about how children are taught it is evil for them to touch their own bodies in sexual ways – something that I thought was kinda a minority position these days.

Um, er, ignorance fought??

I’m just as happy the thread was closed, and kinda wish I hadn’t read that post.

The Dope prides itself on being able to talk about even controversial topics, as long as the discussions are kept civil. The topic in question is about the social policy of allowing or censuring sex with children, both between children and between adults and children. The topic was not a “how to” manual. Rather, it was discussing the rationale for making it illegal and the social and emotional consequences of society’s current beliefs.

The OP was opened in 2011, reopened a year ago in January 2015, and then Henry Miller opened it again this year. He posted a lengthy but on-topic and reasoned position at odds with current social mores and laws. He went to lengths to try to explain why our current social mores and laws are actually more harmful than good. He did not state a desire to have sex with children. Rather, he argued that the emotional damage to most children who have experienced nonviolent sexual activity from adults comes not from the sexual experience itself, but from the judgement of society about sex with children, that judgement being internalized to make them feel guilty for the experience.

I think that is at least a fair topic for consideration. Yes, it is controversial. Unfortunately, any discussion of the topic leads some posters to wonder at the motivations of why someone would think to question the issue. And the more one defends an alternate position, the more is spawns projections of motives upon the arguer.

That behavior is not limited to discussions of pedophilia. It is rampant in debates. It is just extra pejorative in topics where one side of the argument is deemed morally deviant or inferior, such as discussions of race that inevitably get turned into accusations of racism.

  1. Yes, this was a zombie thread, but it was reopened with on topic and substantive discussion of the issue, not with just a one-off “me too” or swipe at a long-gone poster. There was active discussion on the topic. That is usually an acceptable reason to reopen a thread.

  2. While the poster that reopened the thread needs to think about formatting for ease of reading, the wall-o-text was, nevertheless, a rational discussion. It was not standard wackadoo ranting with random all-caps and extra exclamation points. All that would be appropriate is a note to the poster to consider the presentation into smaller paragraphs.

  3. If the thread is close to generating into abuse, isn’t that the point you remind people that the topic may be hot button, but the rules of the forum will be enforced? Rather than preemptively closing a thread because some people are about to break the rules.

I think the warning was appropriate. While Tangent might not have intended it as an insult and just thought he was summarizing the poster’s desires, I believe that falls under the same application of the rule about calling someone a racist. It is a pejorative assertion about the poster’s motives rather than a discussion of the actual topic.

However, an instruction to keep the thread about the topic, not about the poster as a person, would have been appropriate. If you must cast aspersions about the poster’s motives, that is what the Pit is for.

I, myself, do not have a desire to enter the discussion in that thread, so it being closed doesn’t impact me directly. However, the issue in question for me is how controversial topics will be moderated on this board. Can discussions be had on controversial topics, or are all such threads doomed to closure because someone is going to start impugning the motives of the posters?

No, nowadays it might seem logical that plenty of straight people defend gay rights, but 30 years ago publicly defending gay rights would be risking assertions that you must be gay, because only gays would care. I witnessed the behavior when I was in college. Also, the same pejorative view about gays from the one making the accusation. “Why are you defending deviants? You must be a deviant, too.”

Let’s make a distinction here, shall we? There are already banned topics…not because they’re illegal (although they are) but because they’re just so idiotic that there’s no other side to the argument.

A controversial topic is “What should happen to Illegals in the US? Should they be deported? Given amnesty? Or what?”. It’s contentious and divisive and there should be discussion allowed on it because there are two sides to the issue.

A banned topic (and a poster was banned for one too many of these) is “Should all the Jews in Israel be exterminated?”. Any answer other than “Uh–no.” is stupid and trolling.

Another should be “Is it ok to fuck little kids?” because any answer other than “Uh–no” is stupid and trolling.

I’m not sure I understand the mods…um…“reasoning” when it comes to the “FREE AND OPEN DISCUSSION” issue between the two topics.

This is just a stupid argument. Two consenting adults don’t harm anyone. Someone who rapes a little kid is, by definition harming a child. Someone who advocates for gay rights isn’t trying to justify hurting innocent people. Someone who advocates for kiddie-rapists is trying to justify it.

It’s not really hard to distinguish between the two positions.

Er, to be fair, the poster tried to distinguish carefully between raping kids and other forms of sexuality-including-children. A surprising fraction of what he wrote was about it being harmful to condemn a child who engages in masturbation.

People really don’t see a difference between “you want to have sex with” and “you want to fuck” ?

Maybe you could explain the difference.

Uh, no, not really. :confused: