"Jealous" and "envious" are two different words!

[betenoir]

@commasense

I think the main difference is that jealous is nearly always the word applied to emotional relationships between people, whereas envy seems more about possessions or achievements. When you’re afraid your girlfriend has been sleeping around, you’re jealous, not envious. If your neighbor gets a spectacular 51" flat screen TV, you’re envious. You might say you’re jealous, but you’d probably be overstating the case. (Unless you’re really into giant-screen TVs.)

So jealousy is a stronger, less easily controlled emotion: the green-eyed monster. Envy is not as powerful.

I think you make the point but not the one you’re trying to make. You’re jealous when your girlfriend sleeps around because you have a girlfriend and you don’t want her taken away. You’re envious of the TV because you don’t have one. It tend to get appiled more to relationships because once you have a TV it’s not likely to sneak out and let some other guy watch it. On the other hand you might jealously guard the remote. You wouldn’t enviously guard the remote if you had it. Though if you didn’t you might be envious of the guy who did.

Yeah, it seems like they get used pretty interchangably these days. But I think there’s a distinction and it’s worth preserving. Yeah, language envolves and generally I’m in favour of usage as the criteria…however if a change enriches the language I’m in favour of it. If it doesn’t…like if it destroys a useful distinction…then why not bitch about it ? Or to put it another way, I think it’s a perfectly cromulent rant.

[Contrapuntal]

@commasense

I think the main difference is that jealous is nearly always the word applied to emotional relationships between people, whereas envy seems more about possessions or achievements. When you’re afraid your girlfriend has been sleeping around, you’re jealous, not envious. If your neighbor gets a spectacular 51" flat screen TV, you’re envious. You might say you’re jealous, but you’d probably be overstating the case. (Unless you’re really into giant-screen TVs.)

So jealousy is a stronger, less easily controlled emotion: the green-eyed monster. Envy is not as powerful.

I have to agree with commasense on this one. If I see my girlfriend flirting with someone else I might get jealous, but I don’t think envy has anything to do with it.

[PookahMacPhellimey]

Pizzabrat’s distinction is correct.

As for everyone calling this thread stupid. You are are just jealous that you didn’t start it yourself.

Oops.

Sorry.

[stately_plump_buck_mulligan]

What compells this poster to start a Pit thread every time he/she discovers yet another manner in which much of the population falls short of using the English language absolutely dictionary-perfect? For fuck’s sake, this is possibly the tiniest infraction I could ever think of. The two words, yes, are not the SAME word [duh] in the same way that Evian and tap water* are not the same water. They are both easily interchangeable in almost every circumstance; the only difference is that one is slightly harsher.
Then, to restrict the OP to a paltry one-liner, providing neither illumination nor background [who the FUCK did you hear say ‘jealous’ when they meant ‘envious,’ or vice versa, and sent your mind reeling in confusion and rage of the type that requires three consecutive exclamation points]? What’s the deal?

• Unless we talkin’ LA County tap water. shudder

[Giraffe]

@bienville

feng shui?

Brilliant! Simply brilliant. I can’t stop laughing.

[monstro]

This thread has not be useless. I’ve actually learned something new.

[pizzabrat]

@stately plump buck mulligan

What compells this poster to start a Pit thread every time he/she discovers yet another manner in which much of the population falls short of using the English language absolutely dictionary-perfect? For fuck’s sake, this is possibly the tiniest infraction I could ever think of. The two words, yes, are not the SAME word [duh] in the same way that Evian and tap water* are not the same water. They are both easily interchangeable in almost every circumstance; the only difference is that one is slightly harsher.

Did you read anything about anything? They’re not interchangable at all. Jealousy refers to anger/fear about losing something you have, envy refers to anger/fear not having something that you want. If your girlfriend is flirting with your best friend, you can be jealous. If your best friend has a hot girlfriend, you can be envious. Those are two entirely different definitions. Why would you say that they’re interchangable?

Then, to restrict the OP to a paltry one-liner, providing neither illumination nor background [who the FUCK did you hear say ‘jealous’ when they meant ‘envious,’ or vice versa, and sent your mind reeling in confusion and rage of the type that requires three consecutive exclamation points]? What’s the deal?

I could only eek out that frustrated line because there are so many infractions that I wouldn’t even know where to start. In a previous thread, I even used the word “jealous” correctly, and some posters were confused about that. Even in this thread, after the distinction has been spelled out numerous times, you and lambchops are still insisting that the two distinct words are the same.

[Briny_Deep]

I agree with the OP; this bugs me too.

Whether or not you’re spiritual/religious, keep in mind that in Jewish/Christian theology, God is jealous, but envy is one of the Seven Deadlies. This distinction helps me keep the definitions straight.

[stately_plump_buck_mulligan]

@pizzabrat

Did you read anything about anything? They’re not interchangable at all.

I read plenty about plenty.

From the dictionary dot com definition of jealous:

jealous

adj 1: showing extreme cupidity; painfully desirous of another’s advantages; “he was never covetous before he met her”; “jealous of his success and covetous of his possessions”; “envious of their art collection” [syn: covetous, envious]

From the dictionary dot com definition of envious:

envious

adj : showing extreme cupidity; painfully desirous of another’s advantages; “he was never covetous before he met her”; “jealous of his success and covetous of his possessions”; “envious of their art collection” [syn: covetous, jealous]

These are the contexts in which people feel free to interchange the two words.
Deal?

[Celyn]

@masonite

I agree with the OP; this bugs me too.

Whether or not you’re spiritual/religious, keep in mind that in Jewish/Christian theology, God is jealous, but envy is one of the Seven Deadlies. This distinction helps me keep the definitions straight.

Count me in with masonite and several others. In fact, only last night I was grumbling to myself about this one.

Lucky I didn’t start a pit thread on it, isn’t it? Heck, I am sure I have seen much sillier pit threads, so I’m not sure why this one should be so unwelcome.

I rather like masonite’s way of remembering it, and if I ever have to explain the difference to anyone, I think I’ll borrow it.

Now, shall I start a thread about the misuse of “hopefully”?

[porcupine]

@Celyn

Lucky I didn’t start a pit thread on it, isn’t it? Heck, I am sure I have seen much sillier pit threads, so I’m not sure why this one should be so unwelcome.

Because the only cite that was provided shows that the words are generally synonmous.

[pizzabrat]

@stately plump buck mulligan

These are the contexts in which people feel free to interchange the two words.
Deal?

No. Word banks have a history of seceeding to illiterates. And the one you cherry-picked is hardly a definitive one (WordNet? What the hell is that?). “Jealous” has its own definition and “envious” has its own definition. What point is there to ever mix the two?

[pizzabrat]

@porcupine

Because the only cite that was provided shows that the words are generally synonmous.

Reeder provided cites first, and you admittedly cherry-picked a secondary definition from them that merely reported a popular misuse of the word. Dictionaries do that sometimes sans value judgement. The primary, and preferred definitions from the two big-name sources (American Heritage and Mirriam Webster)showed a clear distinction between the words.

[Contrapuntal]

@pizzabrat

No. Word banks have a history of seceeding to illiterates. And the one you cherry-picked is hardly a definitive one (WordNet? What the hell is that?). “Jealous” has its own definition and “envious” has its own definition. What point is there to ever mix the two?

Buddy, you are fighting the good fight, and I am absolutely on your team, but methinks the barbarians are at the gates.

[Briny_Deep]

Fuck dictionaries. There, I’ve said it.

(We all know that most dictionaries are descriptive, not prescriptive; they are based on the language as it is currently used, not as it “should” be used, if such a concept makes any sense. And I believe it does make some sense, but with that in mind, a dictionary is not the place to look for a decision on “correctness” since whatever is “incorrect,” so long as it is in common use, will make it into the dictionaries. Enough schmoes on the street, or any President of the United States, can influence dictionaries.)

Assuming the King James Bible is one of the authoritative sources on English usage, then, (and if it’s not, don’t call me; I’ll call you), here are some admittedly cherrypicked cites for both words in context:

Exd 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me;

Deu 4:24 For the LORD thy God [is] a consuming fire, [even] a jealous God.

Eze 39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

Nah 1:2 God [is] jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and [is] furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth [wrath] for his enemies.

Zec 1:14 So the angel that communed with me said unto me, Cry thou, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with a great jealousy.

2Cr 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ.

Job 5:2 For wrath killeth the foolish man, and envy slayeth the silly one.

Pro 14:30 A sound heart [is] the life of the flesh: but envy the rottenness of the bones.

Pro 23:17 Let not thine heart envy sinners: but [be thou] in the fear of the LORD all the day long.

Act 13:45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.

Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Tts 3:3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, [and] hating one another.

Psa 37:1 [[[A Psalm] of David.]] Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity.

Pro 24:1 Be not thou envious against evil men, neither desire to be with them.

Pro 24:19 Fret not thyself because of evil [men], neither be thou envious at the wicked;
FWIW, probably not much. I want to re-iterate that dictionaries only take one so far. The real test of language is how the best language is written, not what the academics have to say about it.

[stately_plump_buck_mulligan]

From American FUCKING Heritage:

Synonyms: jealous, covetous, envious
These adjectives mean resentfully or painfully desirous of another’s advantages: jealous of a friend’s success; covetous of my neighbor’s possessions; envious of their art collection.

Whinge all you want about “seceeding* to illiterates;” it seems clear to me that in modern usage there is an accepted link between the words jealous, covetous and envious. Were the three words once completely different from each other? Of course. But no language is static, and if you prefer it to be so then you’re going to go bald prematurely from pulling your hair over shit like this.

Why get riled up at people who interchange the words after learning them as interchangeable their whole lives when there are DICTIONARY PUBLISHERS out there perpetuating the illiteracy?

trandallt, just call me Conan.

• This is not a word.

[stately_plump_buck_mulligan]

Okay, this is clearly turning into a rift between those who apparently call bullshit on all dictionaries and those who believe language is malleable - indeed, must be malleable, and has changed more than a little bit since the inception of the King James Bible. Such a rift has existed probably since our jealous-assed god gave Adam and Eve mouths, and it won’t be resolved on a message board any time soon.

[Briny_Deep]

Of course language is malleable. I like old books of all sorts, and lament quick change in the language, especially if it’s not thought out, but happens through sloppiness or lack of reading.

Who can provide written cites that jealous==envious, other than from dictionaries? Show us a piece of writing we all respect, which demonstrates the words are synonyms. I’m keeping an open mind; the KJV was indeed a long time ago.

[pizzabrat]

@Celyn

Now, shall I start a thread about the misuse of “hopefully”?

Too late.

[Contrapuntal]

@stately plump buck mulligan

From American FUCKING Heritage:

Whinge all you want about “seceeding* to illiterates;” it seems clear to me that in modern usage there is an accepted link between the words jealous, covetous and envious. Were the three words once completely different from each other? Of course. But no language is static, and if you prefer it to be so then you’re going to go bald prematurely from pulling your hair over shit like this.

Why get riled up at people who interchange the words after learning them as interchangeable their whole lives when there are DICTIONARY PUBLISHERS out there perpetuating the illiteracy?

trandallt, just call me Conan.

Too late, bald already. Look, I absolutely understand that language is malleable. However, I believe that for a particular word to be replaced by another it needs to be an improvement upon the previous form. I also believe that something is lost when two words with similar but distinct meanings merge. If “jealous” and “envious” become absolute synonyms, then one of them will eventually wither and die. Where is the benefit there? How did you learn to speak? I suspect you were told what words meant, and their meanings were reinforced by consistent repitition.

And if anyone is out there perpetuating illiteracy it is our duty to make them stop. Surely you wpuld agree with that?