I have to agree with the above. I’ve never heard of the guy, but don’t we all have a right to our beliefs? Some Christians feel led to witness everywhere, some to extremes. I don’t recall anyone being forced to listen. I’ll say that was an extremely gracious counter and well researched post you did.
I’ve been on a certain IRC Channel for 5 years now, and I’m scared to open my mouth for fear of being attacked viciously for being conservative to a degree. I’d hate to see everyplace become unsafe to speak ones mind intelligently.
I guess I’ll echo London. Live and let live is usualy my mantra. He’s not hurting anyone, and if you believe differently and want a debate, who better than a passionate believer? If not, ehh, ignore him.
I don’t like jenkinsfan as a poster because for about a month he/she had a signature that said “ETERNITY: SMOKING OR NONSMOKING”. This meant no matter what thread I was in, if jenkinsfan had posted in it, I had to see that sig which I think is very offensive.
I even came up with my own little sig “ETERNITY: EVISCERATED OR NON EVISCERATED?” and had it point to a thread in the pit I created trying to mock jenkinsfan’s method of proselytizing.
You know, not to belabour the point, Satan, but don’t you have better things to do?
That was the first thing that came to my mind in reading your lengthy and comprehensive post. My goodness, the research. And for what? For some overzealous guy who many of us (including me) have successfully ignored. Some overzealous guy who is probably going to get ZERO out of all your hard work. He’ll just see it as further evidence that you are intolerant, or whatever. I suspect it won’t even make a dent on him.
Hey - at least he isn’t screaming this stuff on some street corner, or going door-to-door. He’s real easy to ignore. I started ignoring him after reading about 10 of his posts.
As for what I think about this obsessive zeal some Christians have - yeah, I agree, it’s sad. It gets SO tiring to have every conversation steered towards religion somehow. (And I’m a Christian, mind.) And it’s utterly counter-productive, since it just tends to alienate people.
Most of my few posts recently have been in MPSIMS about various meetings and gatherings. Feel free to search my posts if you wish.
London_Calling:
My post here is not hostile, and my post on that thread was not hostile. The hostility was not from me, and it also did offend me somewhat, but I can see why people reacted that way, and my posts are both attempts to show jenkinsfan exactly why he is being treated like he is.
Thank you for proving my point. Actually, we have a fairly large number of Christians here. It’s just that the rest of them don’t have to have every post about their faith. Which was my point.
dropzone:
As I said before, my post was not intolerant of Christianity, it was intolerant of redundancy. If you don’t understand the difference, don’t take it out on me.
“So what if I want to comment on the posting habits of someone? You don’t have to listen. Some people appreciated and agreed with my comments.”
Works both ways, doesn’t it? So who exactly is holding that gun to your head making you litsen to what I typed?
Now, as I said before (and if I am guilty of redundancy, it’s only because others are guilty of not paying attention), God, okay! Christianity, fine! This kind of shameless, repetitive witnessing? I have issues with it, so do others, and I adressed them a lot nicer than most of the others, thanks. And a lot nicer than you addressed me I might add.
Oh, and I’d suggest you not try and tell me what I should do and where I should take anything. You don’t know me, I certainly don’t know you, so unless you have read every one of my posts to see what I am about, then you best not make any rash judgments.
Shayna:
Far better just to give jenkinsfan a ton of shit when he does it like other posters (whom I mostly respect, I must add) did, right? Come on, Shayna, give me a break. I was nice about it all while others called the guy names. Did you lambast them? I don’t think so.
Saint Zero:
Please do point out to me where I said that jenkinsfan or anyone else didn’t have a right to their beliefs.
“Some posters feel led to point out the posting of other people, some to extremes. I don’t recall anyone being forced to listen.”
Is the same person holding the gun to dropzone’s head holding one to your own?
Aside from his direct Biblical quotes, please do show me a post of jenkinsfan where he discussed anything “intelligently,” thanks. If I had ever seen even an iota of this (and I believe it’s safe to say that I checked, see the OP if you doubt this), this would never have become an issue.
weirddave:
“I’m not hurting anyone, and if you believe differently and wanta debate, who better than someone who did a lot of research to make his point intelligently and without malice? If not, ehh, ignore me.”
yosemitebabe:
If you would like, I could probably find a million posts of yours (or anyones) and reply the same thing. I don’t believe it is your place to judge what I feel is a constructive way to spend my time, thanks. Feel free to, of course, this being a public message board and all. Just don’t expect me to give a rats ass or modify how I spend my time because you think I should do something else.
Okay, so you can ignore him - someone who is putting a lot of hard work into something that we all can suspect won’t make a dent on anyone here, but when I do the same thing, you feel compelled to respond. And on top of that, he has been doing it for over 100 posts, and this is my second post on the subject. Seems a little selective on your part.
And consider this: He might see this, realize how he is coming off, and start to open up to other topics, and then he becomes a well-rounded poster here. And it would be in part because I didn’t “ignore him” as you do, but told him what was up.
Im my book, this is compassion towards him, a lot more compassion than “ignoring” him is, don’t you think? And isn’t compassion a trait a Christian should have?
In closing, lest I get misinterpreted yet again:
Jenkinsfan has been getting a ton of shit from people who just don’t want to deal with him anymore. People have been flat-out RUDE to him (and I don’t see anyone jumping down their throats, I might add).
Despite what you comclusion jumpers think, I like jenkinsfan. Or at least, I have nothing against him. This thread was my way of showing him in clear English exactly how he looks to others. It was advice. I did not slam him. I certainly did not slam religion or Christianity. And I dare anyone to show me where I did.
It was simply advice which he could take or he could ignore, which I also pretty much said there.
So, please do stop your own stereotyping and try and read what I wrote, thanks. I was trying to help do this with jenkinsfan in the same manner that people pointed out to Libertarian that he was a one-trick pony with his touting Libertarianism at every step, how it made him look.
Yer pal,
Satan
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Satan, I have to agree with you. If you (or any other members) don’t know by now, I am a Christian, and have never made any pretext about it or my views on subjects as they relate to it.
That being said, I have two other points to make:
I’ve never liked proselytizing … by anyone. It’s usually an accusation levelled at Christians (not undeservedly, in many cases), but how many people have we come across on this MB and in life who insist that (vegetarianism/conservatism/chiropractic…name your poison) is the one and only true way to go, and will steer a conversation about the weather in Rangoon over to make some point about the thing they’ve built their wheel around. Satan, I assume you feel the same about this practice in general, else you wouldn’t have written about JF. That’s OK. I tend to agree with you, not just about JF’s posts but on this kind of misuse of the SDMB in general.
I’ve also never liked being attacked blindly simply for my religious beliefs, a practice which I’ve seen more than once at the SDMB, a place I would like to consider more open-minded than most. Maybe I’m hypersensitive about it, but I have seen incredible vitriol aimed at a poster (not always me) who brings Christianity into a post – even a post that encourages religious debate. It’s easy to see that knee-jerk pig-ignorant intolerance is not the exclusive property of Fundies or Christians or churchgoers.
Please understand, I’m not saying you have acted this way, Satan. I’m only using your post to make a point. Said point being, I guess, that sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Jenkinsfan is, in a strange and misguided way, intolerant, since he feels it necessary to cram his beliefs (which I may share, for all I know) down the collective throat of this MB’s audience. Let’s acknowledge the rest of the intolerance out there, as well, though, to be fair. Debate and disagreement is the soul of the SDMB. Nastiness and jumping ugly at the first mention of Jesus Christ has no business here, IMO.
If I or any other Christian poster genuinely offend (and I don’t mean offending simply by mentioning Jesus or stating a Christian viewpoint, let’s all be reasonable, OK?), then we deserve all the heat we get. But let’s keep the premise of the SDMB pure by offering reasoned arguments and allowing the free exchange of ideas in an open forum.
Thanks for the pics of the DC fest, by the way, Satan. Looks like you had fun, and you have a decent butt.
Agreed. There are many other posters who demonstrate Christian beliefs but none remotely approach the fervour of jenkinsfan. He is, in that sense, unique (to my knowledge) – and it’s that uniqueness you have taken issue with. How do you marry together your support for cultural diversity while in the same breathe tell jenkinsfan not to be so different ? There is a contradiction.
OK, so in essence you’re saying: Don’t post on just one subject because people won’t think you a credible poster and because it makes Christianity appear cultish. You want him to what…post more often on more subject or post the same amount but water down the Christian thing. And why. You wouldn’t presume to speak for the entire SDBM so I assume it’s a personal preference (that he should post more or more diversely) and also, in your view, if he did, would attain more credibility for himself and his cause.
Well, the guy is a single issue person. Comes with the territory known as Fundamentalism. We all know that. Him being here – and him alone on this message board - reminds (at least) me that fundamentalism, closed minds and much else are here among us and not somewhere else where we don’t need to think about it.
For me, it’s not about appearing cultish because he already is. Nor is it about credibility because, in my view, people not unlike jenkinsfan are a threat to us all and I find it useful to be reminded of that. So for that reason, I want him to post in the manner he does
Perhaps we should agree to disagree on whether to outline to him our preferences for the frequency and diversity of jenkinsfan’s own postings.
I still find it difficult to see this as anything other than, at best, irritation and at worst, intolerance.
Folks I am a christian. Having said that (perhaps one time too many) here is what I think.
Mentioning your christianity a few times is ok. I am guilty of that. But I don’t have a second agenda when I post or talk to others on this board. When we post back and forth on a myriad of subjects you can accept my posts prima facia.
I also don’t solicit problems from other people so that I can pray for them. As much as I would like to think that I have that kind of connectivity with God, I am afraid that it just ain’t so. I leave that to the schooled evanglists and trained seminarians like my priest. Much in the same way that you rely on your trained doctor for medical advice
And contrary to some of the teachings of christianity I don’t feel responsible for your soul. I am too busy trying to walk the straight and narrow to save my own. If you can get your ass to heaven then hopefully I will see you there. I’ll be the one clutching the PC in my arms that is still connected to the Straightdope.
In the meantime to see someone post “this is not witnessing but excuse me while I witness” is just grating on some of our nerves. Nothing mysterious about it, just irritating for some of us ok? Insulting to intelligence. People respond to people who post irritating things on this board and I think that is the way it is supposed to be. I’m sure that my post here will irritate some, but hey, what the hell respond to it all you like.
It just irks me to think that some other equal mortal on this earth has decided that they are directly connected to God and having achieved that, now they have to turn their attention to me, a poor assed sinner to make sure that God is taking care of me too. Kind of Hare krishna-like ain’t it?
The above was not written for debate reasons…it’s just my opinion to which I am entitled. Thank you for your kind attention.
I believe you think you had your heart in the right place. I don’t fault you for trying to do something you thought would be constructive. I do things all the time that I know in my heart I have good intentions with, but, alas, sometimes they come out all wrong. It’s not that I don’t understand your frustration. But I think what you said to yosemitebabe completely sums up exactly what I’d say right back to you regarding this thread.
As for what you addressed to me, personally,
Of course not. You know better.
First of all, I didn’t catch the topic jenkinsfan started until after it was closed or I may very well have lambasted them. See my reply to Wally in the thread he started for Scotticher if you have any question about that. Also, I don’t think I lambasted you here. Just expressed that I thought you were wrong. And I did it as politely, I feel, as you felt you did.
You still don’t get it. One can be very fervent about anything - ask anyone who knows me and they will say that I am fervent about the NFL (especially the Giants), New York City and music (especially the heavy stuff) - and not have every single thing out of their mouth be about that. There is a difference between being fervent and being obsessed, don’t you think?
**
No, what I am saying is post on some other things because you are coming off as a one-dimensional bore. The rest is gravy, all backed up with facts and independent parties who will nod their heads in approval.
**
No, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. He doesn’t have to water down anything. Hell, he doesn’t even have to listen to my advice! But I refuse to repeat myself just for your benefit. If you think that being a one-dimensional poster - and with an agenda at that, and coming off (as someone above very nicely put it) as someone who just views the rest of us as conversion targets, then yes, I have a problem with it.
**
The prevailing opinion - if you look above, you will see other people’s posts on this subject you know - is that I have a point. Feel free to disagree. Feel free to agree. Feel free to play hide and go fuck yourself for all I care!
The fact is that I am not the only person who feels that jenkinsfan lacks credibility because of exactly this. The whole message board? Well, obviously I can’t speak for everyone, but I think I speak for enough, thanks.
**
BZZT!! Wrong answer!! (My how I was waiting to bring that out of the mothballs…)
There are many fundamentalist Christians who can talk about something other than Christ. Some are on this very board. I chat with a few on a semi-regular basis - and I assure you that I wouldn’t chat with someone if all they did was witness to me.
So YOU are the one stereotyping here, pal. Not I.
**
Well, it seems to me that your mind is closed to the possibility of a fundie NOT acting in this manner, eh?
Oh, and he is not alone.There are several fundies on this board. As opposed to your characterization, I can say that simply not all of them need to act that way.
**
Well, all I can say is that everything you have said tells me that you dislike Christians more than I ever could be accused of it, because you see someone making a mockery of himself and his beliefs, and you say that a) this i how everyone is and b) watching him do like everyone does reminds me I’m better than them. Sorry, but that kind of attitude is repugnant.
And then, when I call it to his attention that he is playing what to you might be characterized as the court jester, you get upset with me. Why? Because I threaten to take your entertainment away?
**
Do me a favor here: Quit playing games, okay? This isn’t a matter of a “Non-Christian Post Quota” that he and others should meet, okay?
This is, in a nutshell, about why he is here, period. And no matter what his intentions are, he is certainly allowed to have them and stay. All I did was bring to his attention what he is really doing and what he looks like… TO ME, yes, but also TO OTHERS.
He needs to be honest with us and himself starting soon. If he doesn’t, the likes of yosemitebabe will simply ignore him, the likes of WallyM7 will simply curse him, and the likes of you will sit back and laugh at it all. You laugh at funerals too, right?
Sure. And saying, “they’re all like that” and complaining about honest attempts to show one of them how they really do look to us in the hopes of opening his eyes is the beacon of open-minded multi-culturalism, isn’t it. :rolleyes:
Yer pal,
Satan
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I am not telling jenkinsfan on what he should do, which is essentially what yosemitebabe said to me. She said I could spend my time better, and I stand by my response.
I am showing him what he is really doing, how it looks to others here (some who are beginning to get really irritated with him), and what the probable result will be.
Already we have someone here with a “they all act like that anyway” attitude… And I think that jenkinsfan needs to see that it is his actions which give him and those like him the stereotype.
All I am doing is showing him what he is really saying and how he is making - not only him, but his Jesus look.
And I don’t think thre’s anything wrong with that, on ANY levels.
What I think is wrong is just standing by and ignoring him, or screaming insults at him. And I have not done that at all.
All I did was show him a mirror. He can do whatever he wants, and maybe I’m totally wrong. Maybe he can still have a 100-to-1 ratio of Jesus-to-Non posts until the year 2010, and people will adore him, coverts will thank him, and this place will look like the LBMB.
But I doubt it, and so do you. Like I said, all i did was hold up a mirror. He is free to do whatever he wants. If you would read exactly what I said in the OP, you would see this clearly.
Yer pal,
Satan
I HAVE BEEN SMOKE-FREE FOR:
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Life saved: 1 week, 20 hours, 35 minutes.
Satan, honey, I get it. I really do. I think it’s you who doesn’t get it.
You can’t dress up a horse, paint it different colors, throw some feathers on it and call it an emu. You can claim you aren’t telling jenkinsfan what he should do, but you are. You’ve chastised him for only being a “one trick pony” and dressed it up as merely holding a mirror in front of him. Ok, well he looks in the mirror. He sees what you want him to see - that he only posts on one thing and isn’t diverse enough for some posters here. Now what? You want him to recognize this and change. There is no other point I can see to wanting someone to take stock of their actions if you don’t want them to do something about it once they have seen what you’ve pointed out. Duh!
I repeat, “I don’t believe it is your place to judge what [he] feel[s] is a constructive way to spend [his] time, thanks. Feel free to, of course, this being a public message board and all. Just don’t expect [him] to give a rats ass or modify how [he] spend[s] [his] time because you think [he] should do something else.”
Satan, I’m not sure I understand why it’s so important for you to make sure that jenkinsfan knows how others see him. You’re presuming that he’s too stupid to figure that out on his own based on the replies he gets from his posts. I think it’s a little insulting that you feel you need to point this out to him.
Another approach would be to start a thread in Great Debates to the effect of, “Does Witnessing Give Jesus A Bad Name?” Your opinion is that it does. Others may disagree (I know I do - and I’m Jewish!). It might be an interesting debate (or go nowhere, who knows). But the way you’ve done this here is to state as though it were a fact that what jenkinsfan is doing is garnering the results you claim. I stand by my original contention - there are many things wrong with this particular approach on many different levels.
Nothing like a little lively intercourse on a Sunday.
Me:
“Well, the guy is a single-issue person. Comes with the territory known as Fundamentalism. We all know that.”
I’ll take a wild guess that part of the Giants philosophy is: Attack is the best form of defence.
I’m going to stand by my views as expressed above and just do a little defensive work.
Satan, are lumping jenkinsfan together with other religiously inclined SDMB posters. This whole thread is about how he is not like them. Other Christians here post on any subject that appeals to them. He doesn’t. That is because he is a fundamentalist and they are not.
Perhaps we differ on our respective definition’s of ‘Fundamentalism’/fundie’s. To me it’s in the non-tabloid, non-sensationalist sense, simple one issue fanaticism. I have seen no evidence of other fanatics on this board, notwithstanding your sporting allegiance.
He has but one subject/issue – perhaps in his life. By definition, the others can’t be ‘fundies’ because they have, and express, wider interests.
That, in my view, is his value. He reminds me that; to quote you putting words in my mouth “they all act like that anyway” and I find it useful to be reminded by jenkinsfan’s postings that “they”, the genuine woo woo out there fundamental/fundie/fanatic’s, are singe issue, close minded people.
And he is, in my view - and yours, hence the OP - the only poster here of that radical inclination. <end defensive >
Echoing Shayna: Good intentions --> bad outcomes. Sorry.
Satan, I don’t feel you have been rude to me. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. You probably had my best interest in my mind. I thank you for the advice. I’m sorry to cause you to have to work so hard searching out my posts. You made a very good point. I’m starting a new thread soon in MPSIMS. When you see it, please vote.
My dear, that was a question. I didn’t “tell” you to spend your time better, I was just scratching my head in confusion about why you would spend so much time on this one issue.
We all express our opinions here, we all have our pet peeves and issues. Me probably more than many. But I defy you to find a thread started by me that took so much obvious time and extensive research, over one guy. But hey - whatever floats your boat. If that’s what you want to do…knock yourself out. But expect many of us to wonder why you’d put in all that time and effort.
jenkinsfan, you said:
Honey, you didn’t “cause” him to do anything. He felt the compelling desire to spend lots of time doing this research. It was his decision…that’s the way he wanted to spend his time. Lots of his time.
First, Satan, I think you should have posted this in the Pit. I doubt jenkinsfan’s religion is mundane and pointless to him. (Where the hell are the moderators? Do they think they get Sundays off in ADDITION to a medical plan with an 100% deductible? Geesh.)
Secondly, telling someone like jenkinsfan to become more “diversified” is like telling Alex Trebec to be less haughty. It is an integral part of he is.
Ignore jenkinsfan if he bugs you. But he has a right to be here as much as anyone else, regardless of whether he mentions Jesus, or Jehovah, or Mohammed, 1000 times. And it’s just downright impolite to call him to the mat like this. I’ll ask you: Before posting this, did you ask yourself: WWJD??
look, folks I like Jenkinsfan, but he is like a great piano player that only knows one tune. He has every right to play that tune, but it DOES get a tad dull after a while.
Jenkinsfan came over here from the LBMB with an agenda. And as much as he’s banging his head against the proverbial brick wall, he’s kept up with it, and he’s here.
It’s funny, everyone says he can be as one-track as he wants to be. It takes all kinds to make the Straight Dope the wonderful place it is. Of course, when, say, Michael Masterson interjected annoying “booty daddy” sex posts in unrelated threads and started several threads to talk about how wonderful he was, he got banned. I’m not saying that JF should be banned…just pointing out that Trolling for Jesus is still trolling, plain and simple. It’s the exact same thing that MM did, but people are willing to live and let live, or even support it, because he’s doing it for his religion.
Since this thread was started, it seems that JF has actually started a thread that has nothing to do with religion. This is awesome, because THAT is what makes the Straight Dope wonderful. The SD is about fighting ignorance, and its ultimate goal is to make us all more well-rounded and knowledgeable people. It’s about all of us giving the community EVERYTHING we have to offer, not just one thing. So Jenkinsfan, keep posting about God. But also post about baseball, calculus, the latest urban legend you may have gotten in your e-mail, your favorite Faulkner novel, etymology, metaphysics, and any other things you might be interested in. We want to learn everything we can from you, not just one thing. And who knows? Maybe when your efforts to convert people are a bit less transparent, someone might just listen to what you have to say on that matter.
