Jewish history month.

[The_Blonde_Bomber]

Here we go… :rolleyes:

Like the sun rising in the east, you can always count on the “YOU DEFEND THE HOLOCAST” and “YOU ARE AN ANTI-SEMITE” rants masked in cute little digs.

@Scott Plaid

Assuming you are blond and attractive, I would be more then pleased to bite you.

However, you don’t seem to understand what I am saying. However, I am not “comparing the Spanish Inquisition to Jewish Heritage month.”

No., I am comparing andtoo inane to reply to.

Now, let me remind you why it is important to have a “Hyphenated-Americans week”, and not a W.A.S.P. week. Every day is W.A.S.P. cultural heritage day. Do you deny this?

I don’t understand this reply, but if I read it correctly, you think I’m an idiot. On the contrary… we just have a different point of view. :wally

Do I deny that every day is WASP day? Uh, well… I’m not sure. If you are asking me if the dominant culture in this country is sort of WASP-ish, I’d guess so. But the world (and this country) is changing, evolving isn’t it? How in the hell are you celebrating wasp cultural heritage day? If you don’t like it, by all means leave. There are a plethora of countries and cultures for you to choose from. I didn’t ask to be born here. My great-grandfather decided to drag his ass over on a boat. My family stayed. We learned the language. We, to some extent, assimilated. Does that make us sell-outs? Or does it make us Americans? This is where I live. This is the country I’m invested in. Every other country, culture and religion is below on my list of priorities. As it should be. If I didn’t think this way, I’d get my ass back to Eastern Europe. And guess what? I’d have to learn a new language and “assimilate”. Why shouldn’t I be expected to on some level? Does that mean I wouldn’t hang an American flag in my new house in my new country? No… Does that mean I wouldn’t seek the companionship of people with similar and like backgrounds? Of course not. But does it mean that I’d expect my new country to create an “American-pick your favorite country” heritage month? Of course not. Only in this country do we have this notion of entitlement.

My family is proud to be here. Proud to be American. Are you? Or is it more important for you to be, say… Jewish-American. If being Jewish is your number one priority, I respect that. Go to Israel and live in bliss. If embracing Egyptian culture is what I wanted to relate to, I figure I would have a much better chance to be happier if I lived in Egypt.
AND!

@jrfranchi

This statement implies that Jews have acted in ways that led to their being killed in pogroms and the holocaust.
It could be read that you think they deserved it.

Re-read and consider a retraction.

Jim

I won’t. Your statement implies that Jewish people have done nothing to evoke the hatred of others. If you are saying that the only reason to dislike Jews is because they reject Christ, then you might as well be a Klansman. Right now, I’m not a big fan of Osama and Islamic Fundamentalists because they flew planes into buildings and killed many innocent people. That doesn’t mean I hate all arabs or muslims.

I will state up front that I don’t have a religious stake in this argument. I don’t care if you worship badgers. Don’t like Jesus? Fine by me. Keep waiting for your Messiah. But I think history has shown that many cultures have hated the Jews. I can’t speak for these cultures, but I find it hard to believe it’s solely based on religion. How you interpret my view as I “think they deserve it.” is crazy. I don’t think Jews should be pushed into the sea any more than I think the American Indians should have been pushed over two mountain ranges to settle in the desert southwest. If there was oil in the deserts of Arizona, you bet your ass the Native Americans would have been pushed out of there, too.

You tell me. Why did the Germans attempt to implement “the final solution”? Was it *just * because of religious reasons, or were their economic jealousies, cultural misunderstandings, or a thousand other reasons why they wanted to exterminate Jews?

I submit to you that people, no matter what their religious affiliation, will let others alone unless there is an underlying jealousy that burns within. For example, if you are Jewish and advertise Christmas sales, and gladly take money from Christians selling your products because you like the money, then I’d suggest you are a hypocrite driven by money instead of your religion and your cultural beliefs. You are a sell-out to the green. Maybe that hypocracy pisses people off more than a rejection of Christ.

I don’t know. Obviously. But to suggest that I think Jews deserve what they’ve received is an ignorant statement that speaks to your desire to obscure the argument, and change this into an anti-semite rant. I’m not interested in defending myself to you on this charge. I (and my friends) are comfortable with my position. And they know that if they are Jewish, Christian, Muslim, or whatever, I like them because they are good people, interested in this community and country and the common goals that we all have. Those goals are achievable regardless of race, religion, or any other dividing line you define. If you lived in Israel, and were a fervent Zionist, I’d guess that you’d have some very strong opinions on the future of your country and your culture. And I’d expect you to.

Be proud to be an American. What’s wrong with that?

[Skipper_Too]

@Duckster

Source: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/12/14/60minutes/main1127684_page3.shtml
Shall we divide this country even more than it is now?

As I remember the interview from Sunday night’s 60 Minutes, after Freeman made his statement about relegating his history to month, he asked Mike Wallace something to the effect of if he thought there should be a White history month.

Wallace’s Response kind of shocked me, he said, Well I am Jewish.

Freeman then asked do you think there should be a Jewish history month?

My thoughts on this exchange were, Part of the problem with Anti-Semetic behavior is confusing Religion with Race. I see that touched on in posts in this very thread. Is a black man who is Jewish no longer a black man? I think Freeman was right in not identifying people as a races of people, ie. Morgan Freeman Black Actor, but merely as Morgan Freeman. The same I think holds true for religious beliefs. Why did Joe Lieberman need to be identified in all the media coverage of the 2000 election as the Jewish Vice President Candidate, or JFK as the Catholic President. Why does Race or Religious belief have to identify US as People?

[Anne_Neville]

@The Blonde Bomber

For example, if you are Jewish and advertise Christmas sales, and gladly take money from Christians selling your products because you like the money, then I’d suggest you are a hypocrite driven by money instead of your religion and your cultural beliefs. You are a sell-out to the green. Maybe that hypocracy pisses people off more than a rejection of Christ.

How on earth is that hypocrisy? You’re selling someone a product that they want to use for celebrating their holiday. I can’t see how it could possibly be hypocrisy unless the Jew in question tries to fool people into thinking they’re Christian or something like that. Having a Christmas sale doesn’t imply that the store owner is a Christian, just that they recognize that other people are.

I imagine that most of the people who work at Trader Joe’s aren’t Jewish. But they sell kosher meat, and I buy it, and we’re all satisfied. Other supermarkets (that are not run by Jewish people) might have sales on matzah before Passover, and I would buy matzah there. Or Cost Plus might have a sale on menorahs before Hanukkah, and I’d buy one. What’s wrong with that?

[gooftroopag]

@The Blonde Bomber

And to Mr. Plaid, please. Bite me. You are comparing the Spanish Inquisition to Jewish Heritage month? Take a look at the beaches at Normandy and count the number of crosses vs. stars of David.

You’re confusing the Spanish Inquisition and WWII.

[Scott_Plaid]

Seems she’s confusing everything with everything, as a matter of fact. She doesn’t know what she wants. Two seconds of introspection oughta’ show her how self-defeating her arguements are, but I doubt she will invest the time.

[The_Blonde_Bomber]

@Anne Neville

Part of that may well be that everyone in the group they are addressing is an American, but not everyone is a Jew. They’re carbon-based life forms, too, but so is everyone in that group, so why bring it up? It’s just not a useful distinction to make in that context.

But the difference is, in the context of my particular conversation it IS relevant. If I ask a catholic how he identifies himself, unless he says Italian-American, he’s going to say American. A Jewish person invariably says I’m Jewish (see Mike Wallace comment). Why? They identify with a religion, not a country. That is different. It doesn’t make it wrong. But why is it so important for me to know?

@Anne Neville

And talk to an American outside of America, in a group that contains non-Americans and you might get the same kind of response. Australians probably do differentiate among ethnicities in their interactions with other Australians. They certainly have ethnic neighborhoods in their cities, such as Sydney’s Chinatown.

I might. I don’t know. I have a very good friend who is Australian, and although he admits that there are regional differences, in his opinion there is nothing like Asian Pacific Heritage month in Australia. I have one source… perhaps he is wrong or misinformed. I concede that I could be missing alot of special months in countries like Australia.

@Anne Neville

Such as what?

Such as the slippery slope we find ourselves on. 20 years ago, Christmas was not a bad word. People sent Christmas Cards… got Christmas trees… bought Christmas presents. Now, we are in the world of Political Correctness… and I get a “Happy Holidays” card. A Holiday tree. Happy holiday greetings! I had a cashier tell me that she can’t wish anyone anything but happy holidays for fear of offending a customer. This is bullshit. The reason for the season is Christ. Deal with it. If your reason is Chanukah, then light your Menorah and have a nice time. But don’t change the words to “We Wish You a Merry Christmas” to “We wish you a Happy Holiday”. Please. Like it or not, this country was founded and based on Christian ideals. I don’t like “In God We Trust” on my money, but that’s the way it is. If I lived in Canada, I wouldn’t be happy with the Queen’s profile on my quarter, either. But I’d spend it. That’s the way it is. If you wished me a Happy Kwaanza, should I be offended? Am I permitted to have a Happy Chanukah? If you wish me these things, should I be offended?

@Anne Neville

Many devout Christians, if it came down to it, would prioritize their faith above their country. Such as the Christian martyrs who refused to recant their faith in the face of Roman persecution. Would you really be willing to give up your religion, whatever that may be, if the country you live in said your religion was no longer OK? Many, many religious people of many faiths throughout the centuries have answered “no” to that question.

True enough. You are asking me if I’d be willing to give up my religion to live in a particular country? Perhaps. It depends on what I value more. If I value Judaism and Zionism over American culture, I can see myself relocating to Israel. If I enjoy the certain freedoms of America more, then I’d stay. But on some level, I think there is a social contract that should be adhered to.

@Anne Neville

And part of what being an American means to me is that not everyone has to be the same. All kinds of people have contributed in their own unique ways to make America what it is, and we should celebrate those contributions.

I’m fine with that. But you can’t have it both ways. Every group gets a month, a week, a day, a coin, a stamp, or no group does. At some point, the nonsense has to stop. Or, do you suggest that our military,for example, should allow each soldier to sew on a flag of their cultural ancestry that they identify with, right below the American flag? Absurd, you say? WHAT ABOUT MY RIGHT TO BE ME?!?

@Skipper Too

My thoughts on this exchange were, Part of the problem with Anti-Semetic behavior is confusing Religion with Race. I see that touched on in posts in this very thread. Is a black man who is Jewish no longer a black man? I think Freeman was right in not identifying people as a races of people, ie. Morgan Freeman Black Actor, but merely as Morgan Freeman. The same I think holds true for religious beliefs. Why did Joe Lieberman need to be identified in all the media coverage of the 2000 election as the Jewish Vice President Candidate, or JFK as the Catholic President. Why does Race or Religious belief have to identify US as People?

Well said. You are exactly right in that there is a confusion with Religion and Race. Catholics don’t (as a rule) verbally identify themselves as Catholic. Jews do. If Mike Wallace was Catholic, I’m guessing he’d have said something like “I’m Irish” (or whatever), although most Irish people I know would have identified with Freeman’s comment that he (Wallace) was white. Sammy Davis, Jr. was Jewish, I believe… would Wallace not accept him as a black man because he’s a Jew, and shouldn’t care about Black History Month? Unlike Christians of all colors, Jews do identify themselves with their religion. Why is that necessary? As Freeman implies, judge me as a person, your other “labels” are unnecessary and counter-productive.

[kezami]

[QUOTE=The Blonde Bomber]

I submit to you that people, no matter what their religious affiliation, will let others alone unless there is an **underlying jealousy ** that burns within. For example, if you are Jewish and advertise Christmas sales, and gladly take money from Christians selling your products because you like the money, then I’d suggest you are a hypocrite driven by money instead of your religion and your cultural beliefs. You are a sell-out to the green. Maybe that hypocracy pisses people off more than a rejection of Christ.

(bolding mine)

Successful, money-grubbing Jew. If I’m not mistaken, that is a common anti-semetic stereotype.

[Beware_of_Doug]

@Scott Plaid

Now, let me remind you why it is important to have a “Hyphenated-Americans week”, and not a W.A.S.P. week. Every day is W.A.S.P. cultural heritage day.

In a way, every day is Jewish cultural heritage day, too. When I think about how much less science, literature, art, commerce, political freedom, and general excellence this country would enjoy if it hadn’t been for our Jews, I shake my head in utter amazement.

Then I imagine a world without Lauren Bacall, Bebe Neuwirth, Natalie Portman, Lisa Kudrow, Maggie Gyllenhaal, Neve Campbell, Scarlett Johansson…and weep.

[Anne_Neville]

@The Blonde Bomber

Like it or not, this country was founded and based on Christian ideals.

No, it wasn’t. The Founding Fathers were mostly Deists, and they were determined to keep religion and government separated.

If you wished me a Happy Kwaanza, should I be offended? Am I permitted to have a Happy Chanukah? If you wish me these things, should I be offended?

Unless there are other cues that would tell me that someone wishing me a Merry Christmas is deliberately doing it to exclude me (and this is what I think Bill O’Reilly was doing to Jon Stewart) or trying to convert me to Christianity or something, I won’t be offended. I think the people who care if someone says “Merry Christmas” or “Happy Holidays” as much as some people do need to get lives.

But you can’t have it both ways. Every group gets a month, a week, a day, a coin, a stamp, or no group does.

Exactly. Why not give them all a month? We should make sure Americans are aware that not everyone is the same, and that that’s good. People should know that famous and important figures in history were of different races, religions, and cultures. Stamps? Go for it- the more kinds of stamps there are out there, the happier the stamp collectors will be, and it won’t matter much to the rest of us.

[The_Blonde_Bomber]

@Scott Plaid

Seems she’s confusing everything with everything, as a matter of fact. She doesn’t know what she wants. Two seconds of introspection oughta’ show her how self-defeating her arguements are, but I doubt she will invest the time.

Mr. Plaid. Identify yourself. Are you Jewish? Do you have a dog in this fight?

at least, **Anne Neville ** has identified herself as Jewish. So, her point of view is valuable. Yours is not. You can’t hide behind the slur of “anti-semite”. It’s like a black person screaming “racism” because he was speeding and a cop pulled him over or an arab screaming “Racial profiling” because he’s searched at the airport . I’m not saying that either doesn’t exist. Of course it does. But it’s ignorant to paint everything with the same brush. You can’t flip another opinion as ignorant or that I need “introspection”. My arguments are not self-defeating. I realize that no matter what I write, there are many people that won’t agree. That’s fine with me. Why isn’t it fine with you?

@kezami

Successful, money-grubbing Jew. If I’m not mistaken, that is a common anti-semetic stereotype.

Of course it is. That wasn’t my point. My point was that there may be other reasons that fueled the Nazi atrocities, not just religious ones.

@Anne Neville

How on earth is that hypocrisy? You’re selling someone a product that they want to use for celebrating their holiday. I can’t see how it could possibly be hypocrisy unless the Jew in question tries to fool people into thinking they’re Christian or something like that. Having a Christmas sale doesn’t imply that the store owner is a Christian, just that they recognize that other people are.

I imagine that most of the people who work at Trader Joe’s aren’t Jewish. But they sell kosher meat, and I buy it, and we’re all satisfied. Other supermarkets (that are not run by Jewish people) might have sales on matzah before Passover, and I would buy matzah there. Or Cost Plus might have a sale on menorahs before Hanukkah, and I’d buy one. What’s wrong with that?

Nothing is wrong with you buying (or selling) whatever you want whenever you want. I don’t care who you are. What I am saying is that I believe it is hypocritical if you are a practicing Jew to sell your wares to celebrate Jesus as the Messiah and son of God. Maybe I’m wrong, here… but isn’t this like the US selling arms to Iran? It just doesn’t work for me. That doesn’t mean it can’t work for you. Would you not be offended if a Jewish arms dealer was selling ammunition to the suicide bombers? After all, what difference does it make? If it does make a difference, where do you draw the line? If you believe in your religion, how can you profit from one that is in direct conflict with your own?

Finally,

@gooftroopag

You’re confusing the Spanish Inquisition and WWII.

No I’m not. I used an absurd analogy because someone was comparing the Spanish Inquisition to Jewish Heritage month. Sheesh.

Please read my posts.

And can someone please answer my questions? In particular, how does the concept of Jewish American Heritage Month not clash with the separation of church and state?

For the record, I’m a he, not a she. After all, my moniker is The Blonde Bomber, not The Blonde Bombshell

[Anne_Neville]

@The Blonde Bomber

at least, **Anne Neville ** has identified herself as Jewish. So, her point of view is valuable. Yours is not.

He has identified himself as an ethnically Jewish atheist in other threads on this board.

Nothing is wrong with you buying (or selling) whatever you want whenever you want. I don’t care who you are. What I am saying is that I believe it is hypocritical if you are a practicing Jew to sell your wares to celebrate Jesus as the Messiah and son of God. Maybe I’m wrong, here… but isn’t this like the US selling arms to Iran? It just doesn’t work for me. That doesn’t mean it can’t work for you. Would you not be offended if a Jewish arms dealer was selling ammunition to the suicide bombers? After all, what difference does it make? If it does make a difference, where do you draw the line? If you believe in your religion, how can you profit from one that is in direct conflict with your own?

But someone practicing Christianity by celebrating Christmas in their own home isn’t affecting me in the least. I know that not everyone is of the same religion, and I don’t think they should be. Some people find Judaism meaningful for them, other people find Christianity meaningful for them, and that’s fine. I believe they are all different paths for different people to the same God, so there is no conflict there. I, as a Jew, don’t want to see Christianity wiped out or anything like that, and I can’t think of any Jews that I know that want that. I just don’t think the relations between religions, especially in modern-day America, are in any way analogous to relations between enemy countries, and I don’t think Christmas or Hanukkah presents are analogous to weapons.

Now, if a Jewish merchant were selling, say, Bible tracts that Christian missionaries use to proselytize to Jews, that would be different, as is your suicide bomber analogy.

[The_Blonde_Bomber]

@Anne Neville

No, it wasn’t. The Founding Fathers were mostly Deists, and they were determined to keep religion and government separated.

Point taken. I’ll clarify. Although they were Deists politically, many, including John Adams, were religious personally. Adams, for a while, thought of becoming a minister. His father was a deacon at the First Church of Braintree, if memory serves. Many of the other Founding Fathers had some religious foundation. Many of the Founding Fathers also owned slaves, so how they rationalized this, only they can truly know.

You are correct that they did their best to keep religion and government separated. Oh, if we were only as wise today.

I guess my point was/is is that the US would not have developed into a nation that overwhelmingly celebrated Christmas if there wasn’t a strong Christian influence in the country. This is what I meant by “based on Christian ideals”. Apologies for the confusion.

[DSeid]

@The Blonde Bomber

Take a look at the beaches at Normandy and count the number of crosses vs. stars of David.

Large portions of BB’s posts are only worthy of ignoring, but some implications need to be addressed with facts. http://www.gordon.army.mil/eoo/jewish3.htm Jews have served in the military outside their population percentages. Any implication otherwise is an untruth.

Again (and I am Jewish btw, since that seems to matter to someone) I find these honorary heritage months for all to just be silly and, quite frankly, a little condescending. But I embrace our hyphenated existances. It is this hodgepodge stew that made America great. Compare, if you will, to France, where a French identity means that you cannot also be visibly Muslim. Here we are secure enough to know that you can self-identify as Italian or Polish or Sioux or Black or Jewish or Wiccan or Irish or Arab or Sikh and still be just as solidly American as anyone else. Probably the only ones left out are those poor souls with no hyphen to embrace! Because of our hodgepodge nature we have become a mixing pot of ideas from different cultures cross-pollinating each other, concepts being transformed and translated into new domains.

Hooray for our hyphens! Celebrate them! But enough with these months for every hyphenated group.

[tomndebb]

@The Blonde Bomber

And to Mr. Plaid, please. Bite me.

You will please refrain from direct insult in the Great Debates Forum.

And you and Scott, both, alongf with all the other participants, would be better off with fewer personal observations, sticking to the point (whatever you think that may be), of the debate.
[ /Moderator Mode ]

[Anne_Neville]

@The Blonde Bomber

You are correct that they did their best to keep religion and government separated. Oh, if we were only as wise today.

I guess my point was/is is that the US would not have developed into a nation that overwhelmingly celebrated Christmas if there wasn’t a strong Christian influence in the country. This is what I meant by “based on Christian ideals”. Apologies for the confusion.

The majority of the US population is Christian. Nobody’s disputing that, or saying that shouldn’t be the case.

But some American Christians (by no means all) think that should give them the right to demand that the government help them impose their religion on others. And the people who hold those views also tend to assert that the US was founded on Christian principles. So do you understand why it makes us non-Christians nervous when someone asserts that the US was founded on Christian principles? It’s something that we usually hear from people who would like to take away our right to not be Christian, or make us second-class citizens because we’re not Christian (or because we’re not the right kind of Christian, as in the discrimination Catholics have experienced).

[tomndebb]

@The Blonde Bomber

I have many Jewish friends and acquaintances. To a man (and woman) they identify themselves as Jews first and Americans second, if at all.

This is implausibe.

I have very many Jewish acquaintances–friends, co-workers, merchants, etc.–and I have found the number of them who are “Jewish first” (whatever that means beyond their faith in God) to be vanishingly small and the number who do not identify as American “at all” to be zero. I find it unlikely that we each know widely different groups of people who share a faith, but hold totally different views of their nationality and cultural identity.

I don’t care who you are. What I am saying is that I believe it is hypocritical if you are a practicing Jew to sell your wares to celebrate Jesus as the Messiah and son of God. Maybe I’m wrong, here… but isn’t this like the US selling arms to Iran?

The only way that this could be compared to selling arms to Iran is if you acknowledge that Christians are waging war on Jews. Is that your contention?

I know a very nice little Catholic religious shop that does a good business during December and September and April selling various objects that can be used in Jewish rituals. As it happens, a number of Christian groups have been celebrating seder services and some of the other religious objects are of such neutral character that he is able to stock things that can be used by either Christians or Jews and he happens to have a good supplier so that he can sell quality products at a good price. Is he supposed to check all his customers’ IDs to make sure that only Christians are buying from him? Why?

You seem to be advocating some sort of religious warfare, then decrying the victims of the attacks.

[The_Blonde_Bomber]

@DSeid

Large portions of BB’s posts are only worthy of ignoring, but some implications need to be addressed with facts. http://www.gordon.army.mil/eoo/jewish3.htm Jews have served in the military outside their population percentages. Any implication otherwise is an untruth.

Thank you for the link. I wasn’t aware of the exact numbers. However, I must say that if “my people” were being exterminated, I’d hope that out of 4.5 million, I could get more than .55 million in the fight.

Since the source is the Jewish War Veterans of the United States of America, I wouldn’t say that it’s an unbiased source. On the other hand, it doesn’t make it wrong either. I will take it upon myself to research this more (outside of this thread), because my curiosity is piqued. It also doesn’t negate my comment about Normandy. I didn’t say that Jews refused or didn’t serve in WWII. Please re-read my post, and not hammer it out of context.

as to

@tomndebb

You will please refrain from direct insult in the Great Debates Forum

You are correct. I apologize. This thread has gone a bit off topic, and I’m as much to blame as anyone.

To the OP, my answer is simply no. My reasons, however, tend to stir debate. But I disagree with all of these things, not just ones for our Jewish citizens.

TBB

[The_Blonde_Bomber]

Just to address a last few points and then bow out to get this back on topic…

@tomndebb

This is implausibe.

I have very many Jewish acquaintances–friends, co-workers, merchants, etc.–and I have found the number of them who are “Jewish first” (whatever that means beyond their faith in God) to be vanishingly small and the number who do not identify as American “at all” to be zero. I find it unlikely that we each know widely different groups of people who share a faith, but hold totally different views of their nationality and cultural identity.

Because it is implausible to you does not make it an inaccurate statement. Why is it that your experience is a valid one and mine is not? In no way did I state that ALL Jews feel this way. My particular circle does. They consider themselves Jewish-Americans. NONE consider themselves just Americans. Fine by me, but a curiosity just the same. My sample set is small, I concede, and perhaps not as large as yours. But I’ve asked these questions directly to them because I have become increasingly interested in the history of the Middle East, the Jewish people and religion in general. Before 9/11 I didn’t give it much thought. After 9/11, I wanted to understand what I was hearing, why things were happening, and the different points of view that exist. My Jewish friends have been extremely open and forthcoming in their views and opinions. And I think I am better informed because of it.

@tomndebb

The only way that this could be compared to selling arms to Iran is if you acknowledge that Christians are waging war on Jews. Is that your contention?

Of course not. My point wasn’t that the comparison was apples to apples. It’s hyperbole. It’s an outrageous example. But my point is the following… if you are a practicing Jew, you reject the idea of Christ as the son of God, the Messiah, and the King of the Jews. If you are Jewish and you have a shop that sells crosses, I personally question your faith vs. your desire to make money. Can’t merchants have any principles? I would ask the same thing to a Christian that is selling the Star of David. YMMV. Again, it doesn’t make someone wrong. It’s just my opinion. If I owned a store, I wouldn’t sell Nazi items simply because I don’t believe in conveying a message that is inconsistent with my beliefs. If it costs me money, so be it. I personally would not feel comfortable making money from something I don’t believe in. I feel the same about your nice little Catholic store example. But in the US, free enterprise allows anyone to sell anything (within legal limits). I agree with this principle; I personally don’t understand how people square this moral quandry. Unless of course, it’s not a quandry to you.

I’ve also read where people justified slavery, either by biblical interpretation, intellectual superiority, or some other nonsense. It doesn’t make it right. So, I would not sell a person at a slave auction in colonial Annapolis, even if I could make a good buck.

TBB

[tomndebb]

@The Blonde Bomber

My reasons, however, tend to stir debate.

Well, that is because you seem to have a habit of making odd comments like this:

However, I must say that if “my people” were being exterminated, I’d hope that out of 4.5 million, I could get more than .55 million in the fight.

This makes the assumption (rather unwarranted) that only those in the armed services were “in the fight,” without regard to the numbers in the merchant marine or deferred because they might hold important non-military jobs in support of the war effort beyond the numbers who were too old, too young, wrong sex (women were still not really encouraged to enlist and were never drafted), or ineligible due to being 4F or similarly excluded. Given that their actual rate of participation in the military was a full percentage point higher than that of the rest of the country, your comment is disingenuous–particularly since you have provided no numbers regarding the general Jewish-American population in terms of age and sex or types of draft deferments–and is correspondingly insulting.

[The_Blonde_Bomber]

@tomndebb

Well, that is because you seem to have a habit of making odd comments like this:This makes the assumption (rather unwarranted) that only those in the armed services were “in the fight,” without regard to the numbers in the merchant marine or deferred because they might hold important non-military jobs in support of the war effort beyond the numbers who were too old, too young, wrong sex (women were still not really encouraged to enlist and were never drafted), or ineligible due to being 4F or similarly excluded. Given that their actual rate of participation in the military was a full percentage point higher than that of the rest of the country, your comment is disingenuous–particularly since you have provided no numbers regarding the general Jewish-American population in terms of age and sex or types of draft deferments–and is correspondingly insulting.

Insulting? Not meant to be. Look, I am not looking to make a political statement. My comment was based on a quick glance at the numbers provided in the link. If Americans were being exterminated, I’d like to think that more than 12% of Americans would take up arms and fight. Yes, I’m sure that there were some 4F’d, working behind the scenes, etc. etc. My statement wasn’t to hammer Jews. I was surprised that the number was so low. But perhaps, statistically, it’s right on the mark. Subtract women, children, and men of a non-draftable or serviceable age, and maybe 12% is high. But for the record, if “my people” were being exterminated, I WOULD hope that more than 12% would get into the fight. And by fight I mean holding a rifle, flying a plane, or serving at sea. We are talking holocast, right? Extermination? How much more motivation do you need?

To any Jew who feels insulted, I apologize. I would have said the same thing if I was looking at the stats of Brits in WWII… as I said, I have some research to do. I did not mean to question your patriotism or your sense of duty to the Jewish religion or people. There are many patriots of all races, religions, etc. I include Jews in this group, and would be as proud to stand next to you as I would standing next to any other American.

Hyphenated or not.

TBB