It wasn’t a veiled reference to another thread. It was a direct reference to this thread. The operative word is “tells.” I have no idea how, absent your possession of ESP, that you could possibly know the inner workings of Torre’s mind as you have suggested throughout this thread.
Marley23, you bring up some good points-
My comment about my thinking he had contact with the Dodgers before he went in with the Yanks is an opinion. And you are obviously a sports fan, so you know there are rumours very often about coaches having one deal in place while still with another team, so its not unheard of. I have no idea if it happened here, but its not unheard of. And wouldn’t you be bolder going into negotiations with your current job if you had another deal to fall back on?
And no one here knows Joe Torre’s view on finances, how much he has, how much he wants or anything. It’s speculation either way. Also neither of us know how much the hassle of George affected him. I mean he was there 12 years, and now George is taking less charge and his sons seem more compassionate to me.
And of course he couldn’t take Don if he wasn’t going. My opinion is that Don could dismiss a paying job because he knew he had another coming. Keep in mind, most of Don’s connections are to the Yankees, with Joe Torre is charge somehwere he had no guarantee of a job next year- to quit like that is either ballsy, or he had an idea.
And I also do not recall anyone ever saying for certain that Don was the leading candidate- no one that had any affect on it, anyways. And why would he be, versus Girardi?
You’re an idiot. Case closed.
Don was only really thought to be a contender during the speculation period before it became clear who the Yankees were looking at as a replacement.
At least that was the local scuttlebutt here in NYC.
I think it makes a lot of sense for him to follow Torre to LA. He wasn’t being considered for the manager position in NY and rewards for loyalty can go a long way in building a career and moving up.
Think of Torre as the “Bush of Baseball” and Mattingly as Albert-- . . . Oh, wait. Bush was the “Bush of Baseball” and Gonzalez was . . . .
Never mind.
My apologies then. But “this tells me” is an often used phrase as you know, not usually referring to ESP, but to a persons interpretation of a situation.
But to respond, that’s all you can do to weigh in on something like this, without facts- most sports things of this type are specualation. Marley23 and 5-4-fighting just now IIRC weighed in about the stress and hassle Torre has with the Yanks, when no one knows how he handles stress like that- some people thrive on it. There was speculation by others he is set for life- no one knows this for a fact, or mabye he’s a greedy miser, no one knows. It’s speculation on both sides.
Did you read these posts in their entirety?
Sixteen and a half!
I agree across the board. I’m also tired of hearing that Torre has underachieved with the best team in baseball. A few years during Torre’s stint as manager, the Yankees WERE the best team in baseball. However, that sure as hell wasn’t this year, nor was it the case when he won the World Series in 1996, for example.
The Cleveland Indians didn’t beat a team with superior talent. The Cleveland Indians beat a team with more or less zero pitching ability by using their solid, across the board rotation. Anyone that watches baseball knows that you need pitching to win in the offseason, the Yankees haven’t had a decent pitching staff in years. Not since the days when Clemens, Pettitte, and Mussina were all actually pitching well simultaneously (before Pettitte and Clemens went off to the Astros.)
Look at all the money that was given to complete busts like Kevin Brown, they paid the guy $30m over two seasons and in return they got a starting pitcher who could only start 22 games in 2004 and 13 in 2005 (all of his statistics were abysmal in both seasons–with the exception of his 2004 ERA, which was better than league average, but definitely not $15m better than league average.)
Or Carl Pavano who has been an infamous bust. Randy Johnson was a bad hire, not because RJ is a bad pitcher, but when you look at his age and the length of the deal they gave him, it was kind of madness. He was already in his 40s when they inked his deal. RJ did okay in 2005 but 2006 was nothing but a bust (despite his 17-11 W-L record he had a 5.00 ERA, and most fans have caught on that wins and losses are probably the least valuable pitching metric.)
It’s amazing that Torre got into the playoffs twelve straight seasons especially since Boston has been building teams designed to win playoff games since at least 2003 or so, and the Red Sox have had a dominating starting rotation for years now.
I’ll be honest, I’ve been a baseball fan for decades and I can’t eloquently explain why I think managing is important in baseball when many people think it is easy and has little bearing on team performance. All I will say is this, people who make the decisions in baseball clearly recognize managers as having an integral and essential function within the team and they reward managers with fairly impressive contracts. I think it’s ridiculous to say “anyone” can manage a MLB team.
It’s happened, but usually it’s in cases where somebody is looking for a higher-paying, higher-status job. In any case there’s no evidence for it here.
Didn’t stop you from saying he’d be working construction or in the minor leagues had the Yankees not hired him, but okay. We know how much he’s been paid over the last 12 years, and will be paid over the next few years. I’ve seen people move from one job to another, taking less money, because they didn’t like their current work environment, so that doesn’t indicate to me that he was looking to leave.
He didn’t dismiss a paying job. He said he wouldn’t come back to the Yankees, but with Torre gone and Girardi coming in, he probably wouldn’t have been asked back anyway.
Nobody said anything publicly, true, but it was reported from all angles and I imagine that chatter came from within the organization.
Marley23, sorry for publicizing the unofficial street scuttlebutt, but I have a question (please forgive my ignorance):
Are you saying (in your 2nd to last paragraph) that (i) after Torre made his decision*, Mattingly wouldn’t have been asked back or (ii) Mattingly was being considered for the job (last quote)? Are you saying Mattingly was initially the favorite, but somehow Girardi passed him and once that was done, Mattingly wouldn’t have been asked back anyway?
I could also be misreading your post.
Generally, managers get to pick their own staff.
Mattingly was originally believed to be the favorite. Once Girardi got the job, it was not a good idea for Mattingly to come back, but he opted out.
Not so much these days. That has become a thing of the past.
I want to say thanks jsgoddess and What Exit? but I’m still confused. I’m not trying to nitpick here, just understand.
If it was “not a good idea for Mattingly to come back” (whether b/c managers pick their own staff or other reasons), why the “but he opted out.” Shouldn’t that be “so he opted out”? Unless you mean, “knowing this, he was the one who chose to opt out.”
Knowing this and being a fine and upstanding baseball citizen, Mattingly opted not to return to the Yanks as a coach.
Jim
Or, possibly, in a snit after not being chosen manager, Mattingly opted not to return to the Yanks as a coach.
Why does it have to be a snit? If his one-time frontrunner status is true and he is interested in being manager of a team (even if only someday, somewhere), once Girardi was picked, why isn’t he just taking his chances elsewhere? I’m not saying I have any information either way in this situation, but sometimes people leave under those circumstances because there’s at least tainted relations all around that don’t necessarily bode well going forward and the smart thing to do might just be to go elsewhere.
Thanks for the clarification, Jim.
Just offering an alternative explanation to that of the worshipper at the shrine of Donnie Baseball.
Fair enough.
Sorry Frank, you got the wrong Yankee fan, I am too old to worship Mattingly. I worship Munson, Nettles, Guidry and co. and modern day Jeter, O’Neill & Mo. I am a true Yankee fan, I expect World Series Rings. 
I think it is the 30 year old Yankee fans that actually worship Donnie Baseball.
Donnie Baseball was a great player before his back injury and apparently a very honorable man. I will stick to my interpretation as common sense says it would be a bad idea to stay on as a coach and add to Girardi’s many soon to be headaches.
Jim