Nailbomb
So you openly admit to being a jerk on the SDMB? That’s nice, and I’m sure your statement will come in useful sometime in the near future.
I think the people in this thread have backed themselves up far more than you have been able to.
gobear
From this site you can find the meaning of “Semite.” Before you go calling people derogatory names, you should make sure you know what the words you are using mean.
Semites are peoples who speak Semitic languages; the group includes Arabs, Aramaeans, Jews, and many Ethiopians.
I think you meant to call me an anti-Jew? If so, you are wrong in that regard as well.
Also, with regards to the comment that the sources I cited are biased: Do you not think the NYTimes is a bit biased as well? Or wait, it must be true, because it said so in the NYTimes, right?
::Taking a deep breath to prepare to argue with Hoe, and Nailbomb::
::takes a second and rereads posts by Sua Sponte and John Corrado and rereads Hoe’s and Nailbomb’s idiotic assertions and refusal to deal with any points raised against them::
sigh
Anahita
Semites are peoples who speak Semitic languages; the group includes Arabs, Aramaeans, Jews, and many Ethiopians.
[/quote]
True, but have you EVER heard the word “anti-Semite” to refer to an irrational hatred of Arabs or Ethiopians?
All I’ve got to go on is your anti-Israel postings. People who blindly quote the Palestinian propaganda and call Israel “a terrorist nation” are not generally well-disposed to Jews.
Sure, the NY Times has a lefty editorial slant, no question, but do you seriously, with a straight face, intend to compare the Times to the Arab “news sources” you quoted? Get real.
Hoe, people are not attacking you because yopu hold a minority opinion; they are attacking you because you just regurgitate anti-american slogans and vitriol with no coherent argument to back it up. Your last post (“Ass-Croft”, indeed!) really showed a disappointing lack of maturity.
Nailbomb, it’s not your thread, it’s mine, and you don’t get to declare it dead.
Usually, if someone on the SDMB is wrong, as you were, they apologize, so I’ll wait for an apology. And what did I say against Jews exactly? I have questioned and critized the State of Israel’s treatment of Palestinians, said nothing about the Israeli PEOPLE or the JEWISH faith. Please find a quote where I have, and I will apologize humbly.
The fact that thousands/millions of people use the term “anti-semitic” incorrectly does not make it acceptable.
Would some of the lurkers or people following this post please back me up here on this ONE POINT?
Anahita
Your no more Anti-Semitic (or Anti-Jew) than Hoe is Anti-American. Take that any way you want.
I wasn’t asking for confirmation if I am anti-semite, anti-jew or anti-dote, just that gobear mistakenly identified me as such, and that was ignorant of him/her.
You don’t know my politics, so you couldn’t judge anything I think, only what I say.
Well, if you don’t know I’m a guy, then you’re not as wise to the board as you pretend.
So there is a disconnect between what you think and what you say? Interesting.
You wrote:
now if you wish to maintain that your Israel stance is not an anti-Jewish stance, pray continue. I only apologize when I’m wrong.
http://www.afghan-info.com/Politics/Northern_Alliance.htm
http://www.krtdirect.com/nim/preview.htm?doc=KRT%2Fkrtnim%2Fdocs%2F003%2F434
And here’s a good history on Afghanistan with several sources listed.
http://www.ins.usdoj.gov/graphics/services/asylum/ric/documentation/AFG00001.htm
Of course, you could just look it up your fucking self in an encyclopedia rather than making idiotic assumptions and pretending you know what you’re talking about. But that would be too much work, wouldn’t it?
Really? What land does the IRA control? That’s complete news to me. I’m willing to bet it’s news to the IRA as well.
Well, according to this site, Pakistan claims it was a combination of US and Soviet equipment left behind following the 1989 withdrawal of the Soviet forces from Afghanistan.
http://www.despardes.com/newsexplorer/newsdetails/101301-isi-taliban.html
But, as I said before and you ignored, most cites suggest Pakistan was behind the funding.
http://www.domesticterrorism.com/article1104.html
http://www.indiamonitor.com/terrorism.htm
You don’t need my help.
John has posted: 6 links in this post alone.
nailbomb has posted: 0 links in this entire thread.
John has posted sources from: ABC, CNN, the U.S. government.
nailbomb has posted: Stuff he might have been told, or sort of remembers hearing on the news, or maybe is getting from the aliens in outer space that beam messages to him via his tin foil hat.
John has posted: factual arguments with cites to back them up.
nailbomb has posted: slander and bile with no basis in reality.
Apparently. Given a choice between backing up your argument or changing your point of view, you choose to stick fingers in your ears and shout “la la la la”.
And maybe you’re done with this thread. I ain’t. I’m here to fight ignorance. I have no clue what you’re here for.
When did I say I was “wise to teh board?” As a matter of fact, I claimed previously, not necessarily on this thread, to be an amateur.
now if you wish to maintain that your Israel stance is not an anti-Jewish stance, pray continue. I only apologize when I’m wrong. **
[/QUOTE]
What exactly do people do when they are protesting NONVIOLENTLY? One of the things people do, as is done in the States, re: MacDonald’s, Kathy Lee’s Chinese sweatshops, etc, is that they do NOT buy merchandise made in the country which they are boycotting. Now, you’ve never heard of boycotting?
Also, where does it say Jewish up there, exactly? I have no problem with Jews of any nationality. I have a problem with Israel’s treatment of Palestine. Did you not get that? And guess what, there are Jews all over the world and guess what else? They are not all in Israel! And guess what else? Some of them agree that Israel is acting inappropriately and has done so for the past fifty or so years.
No, no. Hoe. I only hate you. Despite what the little voices in your head might be telling you, there are many, many things out there in the world that aren’t American and aren’t you. Read up on syllogisms.
Quite obviously, this is not the truth. I hate that damn dog on the corner who barks and growls at me as I return home late at night, startling the shit out of me each time. Assuming that dog has thoughts, I know what they are: “this is my turf. Get away from my turf. If you get onto my turf, I’ll kill you.” I still hate the dog.
As for humans, I like to think that the action of a person itself is sufficient to form an opinion of him. I really don’t think that a Cambodian doctor who lost three generations of his family in the killing fields is going to change his opinion of Pol Pot when it is explained to him that Pol Pot wanted to create a worker’s paradise.
Hoe, I am going to get up and go take a leak in the bathroom. The reason I’m going to is because I think I have to pee. Please inform me of the real reason I’m going to the bathroom. Thanks.
I must apologize. I obviously used big words that you couldn’t understand in my last post. I will try again, and I will try to use small words:
The organization (sorry, five syllables) that is the internationally- and UN-recognized government of Afghanistan is the Northern Alliance. The Northern Alliance has allied itself with the United States, Great Britain, etc., against the Taliban, an organization that, in violation of international and (I assume) domestic Aghani law, has attempted to usurp the position of the legitimately recognized government of Afghanistan.
So, of course we didn’t declare war on Afghanistan. We are allied with Afghanistan against an organization (the Taliban) who is in a state of unlawful armed rebellion against the government of Afghanistan.
Damn, lots of big words anyway. I hope you can understand.
Sua
When did I say I was “wise to the board?” As a matter of fact, I claimed previously, not necessarily on this thread, to be an amateur.
now if you wish to maintain that your Israel stance is not an anti-Jewish stance, pray continue. I only apologize when I’m wrong. **
[/QUOTE]
What exactly do people do when they are protesting NONVIOLENTLY? One of the things people do, as is done in the States, re: MacDonald’s, Kathy Lee’s Chinese sweatshops, the GAP,etc, is that they do NOT buy merchandise made in the country which they are boycotting. Now, you’ve never heard of boycotting?
Also, where does it say Jewish up there, exactly? I have no problem with Jews of any nationality. I have a problem with Israel’s treatment of Palestine. PERIOD! Don’t generalize, please, it makes you look stupid. I’m saying this again, because you seem unable to grasp this concept. And guess what, there are Jews all over the world and guess what else? They are not all in Israel! And guess what else? Some of them agree that Israel is acting inappropriately and has done so for the past fifty or so years.
And if I’m influenced by the pro-Palestinian media (all independent, not state-run or corporate) are you not influenced by the media outlets where you get your information? Do you ever actually take the time to read independent sources? I read the NYTimes, Post, Guardian, Times, some French news, and Indi papers/sources as well. I have formed my opinion based on a wide variety of sources, have you?
With that elucidation, I will retract the “anti-Semite” label. I still maintain that your viewpoint is ludicrous, given the record of Palestinian violence, murder, dishonesty, and refusal to accept peace when it is offered to them.
ya see, I toldya I was an amateur.
And when somebody is called for generalizing about Americans and defending a poster whose actions are shown to be provocative rather than intelligent, they should apologize.
I was going to let you off easy when you ignored me earlier. But what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Are you ready to apologize for making unsupportable generalizations about a nation of 300 million people? Are you ready to concede that Hoe had not made a single substantive point when he was called a troll? Are you ready to concede that his attempt to cobble together a coherent argument was answered and so he ignored it and started another inflammatory thread?
You’ve declared it apology time in the Pit. You go first.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Zoff *
**
And when somebody is called for generalizing about Americans and defending a poster whose actions are shown to be provocative rather than intelligent, they should apologize.
Well, if you’ll go back and look, I only defended Hoe on that one statement I quoted. I do apologize for saying things about the US gov’t which are true. Sorry, it came out as representing the 300million people there, when it should have been addressing the several hundred or thousand “policy makers” working for the government.
Now as far as unsupportable goes,…
Can you deny the CIA backed the Savak in Iran in the 1960’s and 1970’s, perpetrating terrible crimes against the Iranian people in support of the Shah?
Do we ever hear how the US ignored UN Resolutions to pull out of Nicaragua?
I must admit, I’ve read these things and don’t have online sites for them, but can quote books for you, mostly by Edward Said, Noam Chomsky and Robert Fisk. But of course, they may not be sources that would pass muster here, so I won’t bother.
Again, apologies to those 300million (of which my daughter and I are two) but it’s our government I have a problem with, not the people. If you go to the Middle East, you’ll hear that phrase a lot.
I have a question for you, anahita.
First, I acknowledge that the US has done various and sundry improper things. Very well.
Just about every country in the world has as well. Governments east and west, north and south have engaged in extrajudicial killings (see* Great Britain and Bloody Sunday, see France and the Rainbow Warrior), denied human rights to its people (see Singapore and the lack of democracy therein, see Egypt and its oppression of homosexuals), invaded other nations (see Iraq, Argentina, Rwanda, Ethiopia, Eretria, etc., etc.), or flat-out killed its own people (see Angola, Rwanda, Yugoslavia, Burma, etc., etc.) There are a lot of bad people in the world who do bad, bad things. About the only countries I can think of who have acted mostly properly over the past 50 years are Luxembourg, Sweden, and Costa Rica
Now, do you ever get on internet message boards and launch diatribes against other nations? If not, why not?
I would submit as indisputable that, since WWII the U.S. is extremely low on the list of nations that have directly killed or oppressed its own people, or killed or oppressed foreigners, either in absolute or percentage figures. Hell, more people have been killed, oppressed, etc. in central and southern Africa (Rwanda, Congo, Angola, etc.) in the past six years than the US could ever be blamed for in the past fifty, even if you ascribe to the US all the actions of its friends and allies.
Let’s face it - the scale of morality of governments starts and ends at low ranges. I submit that on that debased scale, the US is one of the good guys. So, while I heartily agree that criticism of the US and its foreign policy is warranted, justified and a good thing, why is the US the focus of your wrath? Why not do a much greater number of people much more good by focusing on, say, China (whose current government killed 40 million of its own people, which (judicially) executed more than 100 times the number of people executed in the US, which denies just about every human right you can think of, etc.)?
Sua
You railed against those who called him a troll for his comments. But he was called a troll before he made the statement you quoted so your condemnation of specific posters was incorrect as well.
Both you and Hoe came in, guns a-blazin’, making inflammatory statements laced with stereotypes. And then you used the heated responses as justification that Americans are blind and believe the streets are paved with gold.
I happen to disagree with some of the actions taken by the Administration, but I realize that if my first posts were nonsensical insults I’d have a deep hole to dig out of to regain my credibility.
What does this have to do with whether John Walker can be tried for treason? This is another part of the problem here. We were discussing whether Walker could be tried for treason but some people want to come in and vent about the US in general. Hoe just spewed a bunch of anti-US shit in the guise of enlightening us about world events. You came in, made a factually incorrect comment about Hoe being called a troll for disagreeing, and launched into a broader condemnation of the US based on your factually incorrect assertion about Hoe’s supposed martyrdom for his beliefs.
Then, you specifically ask me about other US foreign policy issues assuming that, as an American, I support everything we ever do. Yet my original contribution to this thread was to point out the legal issues involving treason under the US Constitution. So in one breath you apologize for generalizing about the US, then assume I think the US is perfect because I’m an American.
Does any of this sound like a recipe for a good reception?
Our??
Your profile shows France as your location. Ex-pat?