Sorry, but my hands are kinda busy at the moment! Heh heh! 
What? What’s with the looks? Inappropriate how?
He’s been with the FRC for a couple of years already. I think it came out now because he was mumbling about a run for office. With no college degree, and a GED from “The school of the dining room table”.
The police report also show one of the kids talking about being beaten with a “rod”. That must be a from when the parents were being guided by that horrible book “To Train Up A Child”.
The FRC is an evil organization with a crazy, stupid agenda. Not content to be homophobic, anti-birth control and anti divorce those fuckers have this to say about the gardasil, a vaccine designed to help prevent cancer:
Because my eldest daughter was eleven when she got it. As most of aren’t Duggars, we don’t think of eleven year olds and promiscuous sex.
:rolleyes:
Even if that’s true – and you don’t cite it either – that’s not quite what you said before.
As a reminder:
So I’m still interested in a cite for your claim that Jim Bob and Michelle believe that if a woman is sexually assaulted it’s her fault for stirring up desires in the male.
This is an incoherent argument.
[ol]
[li]Gardasil is intended to prevent infection by the Human Papillomavirus (HPV)[/li][li]HPV infections are almost always the result of sexual activity[/li][li]some HPV infections progress from sub-clinical to clinical, and those are the main cause of cervical cancer[/li][/ol]
The FRC’s claim, as I understand it, is that the better way to avoid HPV-related cervical cancer is to refrain from extra-martial sex, and marry a spouse who has also refrained from extra-martial sex and continues to do so during the marriage.
The FRC feels, it seems to me, that by vaccinating your eleven year old daughter now, you are giving her a license to engage in extra-martial sex at some future point in her life, presumably after she’s reached sexual maturity and not at age eleven.
Now, there are obviously holes in the FRC’s argument big enough to drive a fleet of trucks into, side-by-side.
But your suggestion that the FRC is “thinking of eleven year olds and promiscuous sex,” is a strawman approach to their actual argument. They’re not. They’re thinking of eleven year olds growing up, and than, at some point in the future, engaging in promiscuous sex.
Since the FRC’s actual argument is so weak, it seems to me to be wholly unnecessary to strawman them. Their actual argument is: we care so much about avoiding extramarital sex that we’re willing to punish a transgressor with cervical cancer. In my view, that says enough to evaluate their priorities on the matter just fine.
Okay Bricker you made your point. It’s a petty and stupid point but go ahead and have your little moment of happiness and minor nitpickery.
Given the fact that the HPV vaccine helps preserve female fertility – something the FRC prizes above just about anything else – there’s something rather bizarre about their lobbying against a method to help preserve a woman’s ability to bear children. There’s also something rather vaguely schadenfraudish about their hiring a man who molested his sisters and may even have HPV (like many men) and as a result may have damaged their potential fertility during the course of his abuse.
I hang out at the Free Jinger website (dedicated to exposing fundamentalist nonsense and snarking on folks like the Duggars) and not only has this been blowing up since it officially came to light, but it’s been speculated on for years. As such, folks there have been literally combing the police reports in an attempt to make sense of all this. So, according to the mention of the first “filing” (for lack of a better term), this happened in 2003. The oldest sibling behind Josh was said to not have been molested and the identifying markers to correlate with the redacted name was the fact that they were getting their GED and liked working on cars. By a process of elimination (and how long the length of the names are under the blackouts), that means the youngest would be included in those who were abused. That means, at the time, she would have been FOUR years old. That’s no youthful hijacks I’ve ever experienced or known anyone not a sketchy son of a bitch to.
And that 4 out of the 5 victims lived at the residence of JimBob and Michelle.
Couple of trains of thought on the former. In Arkansas, anyone can request this kind of stuff under the Freedom of Information Act. One idea is that the Duggars are being pushed into heavy rotation these days (lots of People spreads and segments on Good Morning, America, for example) that more people are trying to dig up dirt. Others think that only someone involved can request a police report involving minors, so therefore it had to be someone assaulted. A couple of the older girls have left the nest, got married and are reproducing themselves, so might want to expose all this in an attempt to protect their own offspring. Lastly, Josh had political aspirations and many wonder if a rival did this to sink him. Who knows though?
As to the latter, it isn’t coincidental, I don’t think, that this hit after the show ended, before a long weekend. PR people say that’s the best time to break a story like this if you want to defend the guilty. That way, people are to rushed to spend their holiday to pay much attention and by the time they get back to it, they’ve mostly forgotten and don’t care. The responses, from the family and the FRC, appear thought out in advance and seem to be much ado about nothing. Josh hashed time to land a house back near hear parents (why if he plans to stay working?) and the kids who’ve left home and have been little involved with the group of late, were all ensconced and around everyone together well before this hit the media. Just some speculation floating around out there.
Yeah, no. He got shipped off to do construction work with a family friend. There’s some question whether or no he was sent to ALERT, which sounds like some sort of re-education camp type thing for wayward Christian youth. We see how well that’s worked for gay kids born into these destructive environments.
It doesn’t surprise me in the least that something like this happened. The Duggars’ warped ideas about sexuality have led them to raising their children in a very unhealthy environment. I do feel sorry for Josh as he was 12 years ago: a confused, repressed teenager who was being taught all sorts of nutty things (and not only about sexuality). Of course, I feel even more sympathy for his sisters who were the victims of that confusion and repression. I very much doubt that any of them received any effective counseling. They were probably all told that Satan was responsible and they needed to pray more.
I do hope that these revelations mean that the Duggars vanish from public view. I expect they will always be popular on the fundamentalist homeschooling Quiverfull circuit, but if they would disappear from mainstream magazine covers and TV, that would be a true blessing. Can I get an amen?
The truth is that the Duggars are terrible people. And they don’t get one tenth of the condemnation they deserve in our society. The promote homophobia, sexism, planetary overpopulation, the view of women as essentially nothing more than vessels for childbearing, creation “science,” dangerous and stupid child rearing practices such as blanket training, pure female submission to men and the imposition of an extremist Christian theocracy on the rest of us in place of our democracy. I hope this will finally lead to the cancellation of their show and a shunning by most mainstream media.
Something’s wrong with you when you make the Kardashians look like models of sanity and rationality.
AMEN!
Let them actually practice modesty and get the hell out of the media!
I think Jim Bob started doing the show out of a genuine desire to share their beliefs and help other families. But like many reality show families, he got swept up in the money and publicity and failed to consider the effects of all that public scrutiny on his kids.
I find their views abhorrent, but I also hate how the kids get ripped apart every time they post something on social media. They are just parroting what their parents taught them.
The family’s statement, widely circulated in the press this morning, said that all those affected (e.g., the victims) got counseling. But yes, the nature of his counseling makes me think the girls were sat down in a room with some guy in their church who told them Jesus was all about forgiveness.
Obviously, I don’t agree with this criticism.
An unspoken attitude that seems quite prevalent here at the SDMB is that when a disdained target is discussed, any accusations against that target are fair game. After all, who would want to defend ________ against anything?
This runs counter to the slogan that supposedly animates the SDMB: fighting ignorance. I don’t have any real interest in defending the Family Research Council, but I have even less interest in seeing inaccurate accusations flourish against them.
Well, I don’t know how much they prize fertility, but I agree (and said as much above) that their priorities are severely misplaced if they think it’s good to have cervical cancer as a result of a momentary lapse of judgement. Of course, the solution also protects those for whom the “lapse” is not momentary and who don’t see it as a lapse, but what of it?
My understanding is that his acts were limited to fondling the genitals and breasts of the girls, sometimes while they slept If that’s the case, then transmission of HPV is unlikely in the extreme. And of course his age – 14 – makes it unlikely from a statistical standpoint that he had HPV at all.
So this would be another example of extending the argument past the point of sustainability. I absolutely agree that there’s something schadenfraudish about the FRC hiring a man who molested his sisters. If you end the sentence there, it’s true, and a fully justified piece of snark; they obviously didn’t know about it when they hired him, but given their public image the mere fact that they did is enough to get a ‘snerk’ in their direction.
The unlikely speculations that follow merely diminish that valid point and focus on another one, one that collapses under the weight of the ad-hoc assumptions that animate it.
It came to light when Oprah suddenly cancelled a scheduled interview with them. Her team had received a tip, did some looking, and chose to back away. Nobody leaked or told, but the cancellation of the interview made others do some digging and that’s when it was revealed.
<snark>He could have gotten it from Michelle.
Or JimBob. </snark>
Amen. I do feel sorry for Josh to some extent, he was not raised in a normal household. But of course I feel much more sorry for his victims.
I agree, I hope the girls got counseling, but I doubt that it was adequate.
Another thing that I don’t think I saw anyone mention here, but the men in the family (and their overall subculture) do seem to have a more weighted opinion than women do. From a Today.com article from last year about the “Duggar’s rules of courtship”:
I don’t know what exactly that means, if the boys just give their opinions on what the girls should do with their dating lives and the girls can disregard, or if what they say goes and the girls have to fall in line. If the brothers do have authority over the sisters, that’s weird and gross for any family, but takes on an extra layer if a brother who molested his sisters later has control over their dating lives.
Somebody leaked it to Oprah, then. And then others did some more digging.
The eldest kids are in their twenties. They’re not kids anymore. Several of them are married with kids. If they don’t want to get ripped apart then they should rethink putting themselves out there at every turn. The last time I went food shopping a Duggar girl was staring me in the face at the checkout counter because she was on the cover of People magazine merely for giving birth. My twelve year old daughter knows all of their names and asked me about what happened yesterday. The only good part about it is that I was able to have a sane talk with her about what constitutes appropriate touching.
The best thing that could happen for the television show to get cancelled and for the cameras to go away. Maybe then their kids will grow up to see other options in life besides having enormous families and attempting to impose Christian theocracy on the rest of us. It’s about time they got a decent education ideally from someone besides Ma Duggar and her shitty School of the Dining Room Table. Maybe then they might walk away from the crappy Quiverfull idiocy they espouse and away from sexism, homophobia and scientific illiteracy.
My cite is that I’ve heard Jim Bob and Michelle say on many occasions that it’s the woman’s responsibility not to stir up sexual desires in men.
Here’s a cite for how Gothard followers handles sexual abuse. Jim Bob and Michelle are have been avid Gothard followers for years.
This is all gross, but I sincerely wonder if Duggar looked at his much younger sisters (and (Ewwwwwwwwwww!!!) felt them) because he never had any sex ed of any kind. He maybe wanted to know what was up with female genitalia.
That makes it a bit less absolutely horrific IMO. He’s responsible for his behavior, but that fucked up system they live in is partly to blame too. Kids play doctor. They’re curious about what the other sex looks like naked. I assume the Duggar children have no unrelated acquaintances.