Couldn’t figure out how to do a strikethrough so I used red and blue for delete/insert.
It sounds like you want him to help you figure out what you are going to do with your life. This is a perfectly reasonable expectation for you to have of your advisor.
Don’t overanalyze what you are going to say to him. Do make sure that you actually ask him for help with something specific, you don’t want to just dump a story of misery on him without telling him how he can help you.
I agree with having a plan for what you want from him before you talk to him. As they say in the working world, don’t go to your bosses with problems, go to them with an idea of what you want from them.
What would be the downside to telling your advisor that you are currently struggling with some severe depression and uncertainty about your career?
Do you have a program/PhD director who seems like a relatively sane and reasonable person? Or another faculty member who is approachable? Entirely MHO but I think it might be helpful to talk to a few different people, in addition to your advisor, about what your options are after you graduate. I mean, I wouldn’t go into the depression with every one necessarily, but you don’t need reason to talk to them about career prospects. You’re a grad student in the department so you get to ask for a half hour of their time for a friendly little chat. And it really doesn’t have to be strictly about you, you can just ask about what they’ve seen other stats guys do after they finished, how they found the job, etc. It might make the process seem more … manageable, if you start to talk about it and gather information.
Okay, your advisor may not be the most sympathetic in how he interacts with you, but you aren’t looking for sympathy in this context. It is part of your advisor’s job to help you figure out what to do with your education. Especially since it’s an advisor who specifically picked you out to work on a specialty degree that didn’t exist yet. Heck, it’s even in his own best interest to see that you do well.
That said, there’s no reason you have to mention the depression first off. You can be a little vague, and just mention that you are having concerns about your future, and that such concerns are affecting your work. Then feel it out and see if mentioning that you have depression is necessary.
If you do mention it, be sure to mention that you are not wanting him to be your therapist, just that you value his expertise on what you need to do. That’s about the only downside I could see–him thinking you need too much from him. But career advice is not too much.
Finally, you have a therapist. Discuss this with her. If it were my therapist, it’d probably wind up being a homework assignment. You’ve got to face your fears to get over them. And this is a low risk way to do so.
Yup. From my experience with graduate school I know that “being struggling” at different levels (from depression to the blues, and from not being able to find the right quotables to not knowing what do you want to do with your degree) isn’t so much “normal” as “to be expected”: one of the reasons you have an advisor is to help you deal with that stuff. And from what you’ve said, yours is a nice guy and takes his advising job seriously. While he can’t do anything about the actual depression (and you’re already doing what you can, which is great), he can help you figure out what to do with the degree.
Depression and ‘mental illness’ are getting more common, especially among industrialized countries. I think your advisor is likely to be familiar with it; you may not be the first such student or person he knows who has such problems.
The point is, as others have pointed out, your motive. I read that it is your sister who recommends that. Have you asked her what she hopes that would achieve for you? Is it better understanding from your advisor? An explanation for why you may need some justifiable time-off?
I used to hide my problems from friends and others, and I realize that it doesn’t actually work out fine. Firstly is people know that things aren’t right, and the pent-up feelings usually just derail things. Second, it puts pressure on you to behave ‘normally’ and this is pressure which depressed people like us don’t need.
You may not need to talk to your advisor straight away. Try to find a counselor at school first. I was having a bout of depression and a series of panic attack while in my final undergraduate year and the counselor helped a lot, even if it is silly stuff for allowing me to take my examination in an isolated room. The counselor may contact your advisor on your behalf, or helps you to formulate the right thing to say which is fitting in your school’s culture.
I guess you may want to refrain from using ‘mentally ill’ - I guess you can just use ‘depression’ or ‘general anxiety disorder’. I guess those terms are quite widespread. For me, I would approach my advisor with this “Sir*, I would like you to know that I have been having depression for some time”
On Edit: It’s a different deal for the working world, of course. But let’s burn one bridge at a time, should we?
Sorry if I’ve missed this, but have you spoken to your therapist about speaking to your advisor? I’d imagine your therapist would have some good tips on how to approach your advisor in a positive, solution-focussed way.
Unless the conversation turns personal or he asks why (if it has been) your work has been subpar, I wouldn’t disclose your illness. As others have said before, you’re looking for advice, not to be excused from work or anything. Bringing up the depression may muddy the waters unnecessarily. It would sort of be like bringing up a cancer diagnosis in this situation. It could border on TMI.
I would rely on your therapist for help with this matter too. She may have some ideas on who to consult if you’re too scared of ruining your relationship with your advisor. Universities generally have career counselors, don’t they? I know some of them suck, but it may be worth a try.
May I also suggest starting off onto a career path that’s low-stress, at least initially, until you can get yourself straightened out? Again, a career counselor may have some ideas for you. (Like, you could do a couple of minimum wage internship at a non-profit (they like putting Ph.Ds on their grant applications) while doing adjunct teaching somewhere.) I don’t know what your finances are like so maybe this idea is crappy, but it seems to me that you are not prepared to jump into the real world right now, psychologically. You need a slow transition.
I think your proposed script, with the modifications submitted by Absolute, is a good way to start things off. And your advisor *is *giving you an opening, simply by asking, “So, what’s going on?” Your job is to take that opening and, well, tell him/her what’s going on.
I agree that your motivation for telling people about this is meaningful. No, you don’t want to use your Depression as a whiny crutch. But it is useful information about why you’re behaving as you are. At the very least, it lets your advisor rest easy that you’re not a flaky lazy student. You may have difficulties, but you’re aware of them and working to overcome them.
monstro, you say bringing up a cancer diagnosis would be TMI. I disagree. Yes, if you’re bringing it up to get out of doing the work, that’s a bad thing. But if I was the advisor (or boss), I’d like to hear it, if only to put my mind at ease. I’d rather hear that my subordinate’s daily vomiting was due to a medical condition being treated than my assumption that they are out every night drinking heavily and suffering the resultant hangover. True, cancer sucks. But the side effects of it and the treatment can be accommodated without me worrying about the value of this student/employee and his life choices.
In other words, sometimes the actions are less important than the reasons. As a supervisor, giving him reasonable amounts of information as to those reasons could be very useful for him and for you.
Thanks for the suggestions. They really do make it sound more productive.
Now I just have to commit to staying on script. If I don’t, I feel I might lose it (start crying, screaming, etc.). I’m that close to the edge.
There’s really no one else in the department to talk to. Our department is broken into three mostly non-overlapping areas, and he’s in charge of the stats area (I’m not in a traditional stats program). He is the director of the program. Now, there’s another guy who I have never met who is in charge of all PhD programs for the college, so maybe I could talk with him.
Another thing that I thought I mentioned, but looking back I clearly didn’t: I’m a grader and TA for both of his graduate stats classes, in addition to having to prep and lecture twice a week my own undergraduate class. During office hours, I usually have a line of his students outside my door, so that I’m usually helping students for at least 4 hours straight per week. He actually got me the teaching job, as it’s in a different part of the university, because he thought it would look good on my CV.
I always thought that when it was dissertation time, the teaching load was reduced. But in my case, it’s been increased. Don’t know if that’s common or not.
This has been my experience as well.
Good luck, and let us know how it turned out. He is absolutely in a position to help you figure out your next steps, and it is his job to at least advise you about that, being your, erm, advisor and all.
I think it makes sense to let your advisor know that you’re dealing with depression. You certainly don’t need to share details if you don’t feel comfortable.
As an advisor, I would want to know if my students were having major life issues. I would recommend that they seek out help with their issues, which is to say, if you tell him everything he may throw up his hands and tell you to visit the counselors at your institution (given the recent events we experienced here in Austin). But I think you will impress him if you make it clear that you are on top of treating your condition.
I think it’s far, far better to be transparent and share whatever things are happening in your life, rather than doing nothing and leave people wondering why you seem down/disengaged/out of sorts.
Also – one reason for mentioning your condition would be to establish that you are suffering from a disability. There are laws to protect you from discrimination. I would infer that your sister thinks your work might be suffering.
It’s also good to document what’s going on if you have to take a leave of absence or something. I’m in grad school now (masters, not PhD), but one thing mentioned a few times was that if you have some issue (mental or physical illness), even if you’re not being treated by someone affiliated with the institution, you should keep a record. That way if you need time off, they’ll see why and that you genuinely have an issue–it’s more out in the open.
If you are really on the edge of suicide you need to pull back from the things that are stressing you. Having said this I would not tell my academic advisor that I had a significant mental issue in a million years. Regardless of how they present themselves mental issues are not perceived by most people like alcoholism, drug addiction and other “diseases” you can fight and overcome. A fundamental mental disease makes you permanently “broken” in many other people’s perceptions.
Chances are very high that whatever you tell you advisor is eventually going to spread around the department. You will be perceived as a high risk person to mentor or collaborate with.
People in competitive environments are feral animals WRT competing for resources and opportunities, and the weak are attacked or despised, and eventually pushed out, overtly or covertly. You need to step out and solve your mental issues before proceeding. Trying to do that by telling your advisor of your issues, and maintaining your status as an effective person in the department at the same time will (IMO) be impossible.
Oh, hell. Now I don’t know what to do. **astro, **I’m already being pushed out, and I already think he regrets taking me on as a student. I already feel attacked and despised. I just wonder what I have left to lose by telling him?
I don’t know how I can just “step out” of this without letting somebody know what’s up. I’m teaching a class and TAing for him. People who aren’t in trouble don’t just “drop” things midstream. It seems that I would end up having to tell him, or the department, or both, anyway if I wanted a leave of absence.
I know you’re probably speaking from experience, but do you really think a decent advisor (never mind not being warm and fuzzy) would talk about one of his student’s health issues with other faculty? I can’t even disclose a student’s grades to anyone or I’d lose my job. It seems that he would be risking a lot to discuss something I told him in confidence.
statsman, from everything you’ve posted here in the last while, I don’t think it would be an admission of failure to pull back from the things that are making your life miserable - I think it would be a very healthy choice. Is this doctorate degree worth your life? If you take a leave now (or quit altogether), would you never be able to pick it up again? Can you do something with what you already have, which, if I understand correctly, is 9/10ths of a doctorate? When you’re struggling so hard with emotional problems, it’s not a failure to look after yourself - it’s actually the best thing you can do. If someone was posting here about how they were bleeding to death, but their only concern was about how they were going to manage that and working on a doctorate at the same time, our advice universally would be, “DUDE! Get the bleeding under control, then worry about your schooling.” It’s the same for a deep depression.
If you are ready to quit anyway, what do you have to lose about talking with your advisor about the difficulties you’re having? A final thought - there are those who believe that anxiety and depression are actually a gift - it lets you know in no uncertain terms that something in your life is not working. You can ignore the signs or you can fix what’s broken.
Your thread title is now true.
I’m an academic advisor or graduate mentor and I agree with the above. It is our job to guide students through their career even after they graduate. I would certainly want to know about your problems with depression, particularly if they’re that serious. I’m not required to know but I definitely would want to know. Our default position is to push students to excel and we’ll keep pushing. Graduate school is hard after all. However, we don’t want to push someone over the edge.
Good luck!