Just got some spectacularly bad advice from someone I trust

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I’m a doctoral student who has been dealing with suicidal-ideation-level depression for some time. I see a therapist and take meds (Remeron), which is one reason it hasn’t gotten beyond ideation. The other reasons are a). I’m too scared and b). it would hurt others. Most of the time, I’m in a sheer panic because I have no fucking idea what the hell I’m going to do when (or if) I ever get this dissertation done. I’ve never really “done” anything except work at a radio station 3/4 time during undergrad, and I didn’t like that. I enjoy teaching, but I have no idea where I’d like to go to do that. I’m at the point where death is less scary than graduation.

(Yes, your life is harder than mine. I admit. I will lose that game if someone starts it).

Now to the point. My sister is a manager in a large private company. Not top management, but lots of direct reports. I include her job title as evidence that this advice comes from someone in the “real world” who actually manages people in a for-profit enterprise. I usually trust her judgment, but I think she’s wrong about this. I don’t trust anything my brain tells me anymore, so I feel lost.

She suggested that I tell my doctoral advisor about my mental illness. I think this is a spectacularly bad idea! From what I’ve gathered about “the real world,” bosses (that’s what he is, right?) aren’t supposed to care about their employees’ personal lives. What good could his knowing that I’m barely keeping it together do? What is he supposed to do? Life is hard, some people wash out, I’m not his kid, etc., etc.

I shouldn’t tell him about my depression, right?

2

It sounds like you’re actually asking us to tell you it isn’t bad advice and that you should. And that deep down you do want to confide this.

I don’t have experience with this myself so I don’t know what to do but it does sound like maybe you should tell him something’s up with you, healthwise, in case you need to take time off or something.

3

I wouldn’t go to him with the words, “I am mentally ill” (unless you’re way worse off than you’re telling us), but yeah, tell him you’re struggling. Absolutely.

4

That may be what I’m doing subconsciously, but I really don’t believe I know what to do. I don’t trust my own judgment as far as what is reasonable to expect from other people.

5

It seems like you trust your own judgment enough to have titled the thread the way you have.

What makes you think your depression is part of your “personal life,” anyway? The fact that it never affects your work? Obviously that isn’t true. You seem to be making a distinction there that won’t stand up to scrutiny. Even presuming that your adviser doesn’t give a shit at all about who you are a person, he certainly cares who you are as a doctoral candidate. To whose benefit does it work to conceal the fact that you’re a doctoral candidate struggling with the way you feel about the world?

If you want to tell him, and you think it matters, of course you should tell him.

6

So long as you trust someone enough to feel they hold candid knowledge of your personal life as a responsibility, and you feel they can offer more help, than do harm, then I’d go for it, and tell your advisor what’s up, in the most sincere and genuine way possible. Sure, there’s always the chance this information can backfire if disclosed to your superiors, but also weigh the risk if you really do need to take a step back from your responsibilities due to your mental health. Chances are, you may actually find an ally, though.

7

I was trying to make the title as concise as possible. And yes, when I first heard it, I felt it was bad advice from her. But there have been times I’ve felt even more strongly one way or another on a matter, and I’ve posted about it here, and I find out that I’m completely in left field judging from the responses. So, rather than come out “guns blazing,” I really did want to reserve judgment until heard what some other people who weren’t in the middle of the situation had to say.

8

That’s the thing. I don’t really know what is reasonable for me to expect from him, given I tell him that I’m struggling. I don’t know the answer to the most logical question he could have: “What would you like me to do?”

9

This is not your personal life. It sounds like a large part of your unhappiness stems from uncertainty about what to do with your professional life, and your advisor can help you work through that. Definitely tell him and ask for his advice. Don’t give it a second thought, and don’t listen to anyone who tells you otherwise.

The world is not as cruel and heartless as you think it is. Go to your advisor, tell him are depressed and worried about what you will do with your life after graduation. If he is a decent advisor or a decent human being (he doesn’t have to be both), he will be able to help you.

If he doesn’t help you, he’s an asshole and he’s bad at his job. Forget about him and deal with him as little as possible.

10

Does your advisor know you’re struggling with figuring out what you’re going to do once you’re done? If nothing else, he might be able to help you with that issue.

11

Could that be because you’ve somehow gotten conditioned to avoid that sort of thing, do you think (the “what I would like” bit)? I mean, that is the question, after all, and it’s a different question from “what ought you to like me to do?” The most useful answer to the question isn’t going to come from an outside source.

At a guess, I’d say you must have mentioned something to your sister about how you feel about your adviser’s expectations of you, and that’s what prompted her to give that advice. Which, if that’s what happened, is probably a decent start toward figuring out what the answer to that question is.

12

“I would like you to help me figure out what I will do after graduation.”

It is perfectly reasonable to ask your advisor for career advice, and any worries you have related to your own work, ability, future, etc.

“Personal life” items that your boss doesn’t care about are things like what you did on the weekend, difficulties with your girlfriend, money problems, etc. But being clinically depressed and worried about your future - that’s absolutely appropriate to talk to him about. Especially when you’re still in college.

13

I’d tell him. Be honest and straight forward and ask for his assistance.

Bosses are people. Just like people, some will care and do what they can to help while others won’t do much, if anything. Good bosses care, shitty bosses don’t.

I’ve been through a similar situation with alcoholism and depression. My bosses all rocked, they did what they could to help. Most businesses and Universities will have programs set up to assist workers/students with these kinds of issues. Businesses will probably refer you to a doc. I imagine it is the same with Universities though they may have in-house counselors you can talk to.

All of the bosses I dealt with when it came to these kinds of issues all pretty much responded in the same way. They all said something along the lines of "I knew something was up, now what can I do to help?’. The help they can provide will depend on the situation but at the least they may be able to lessen the pressure you are under.

Remember, this guy is there to help. It is good for your advisor for you to do well. It makes him look good if you do well and he has a vested interest in you doing the best that you can. On top of that, he probably wouldn’t be your advisor unless he cared about how you are doing.

Having been through a similar situation I hope that you understand a couple things. First, while what you are going through is scary as shit, there is help and it will get better. I know this might be hard to believe right now but it is true. When I was drinking and depressed and it got really bad I didn’t believe it would ever get better. I managed to find some hope, enough to keep me going, from reading and hearing about others who made it out of the darkness. Those people did not fix my problem but their stories gave me the belief that it was possible to live a happy and healthy life.

Second, and this is a big one if you are like me in any way, you have to trust people with what is going on with you. When I first started dealing with my problems it seemed that telling anyone what was going on with me was incredibly hard. I thought they would think I was weak, or a loser, or just hate me. Instead I found that they cared and wanted to help. Another thing I found, which surprised the heck out of me, was that almost everyone understood. They had either suffered from depression or knew someone who did.

Third, telling someone about these problems can be very helpful. Lying or trying to hide the problem just causes more stress which makes the situation worse. By being open about what is going on you relieve that stress. Instead of going 'Crap I can’t do x today ‘cause I feel too bad, what am I going to tell him?’ you can actually call him up and let him know you are feeling bad. It takes away another stress point. At the same time, he might be able to talk you through a bad point.

Forth, talk to people. Find a support group. Talk to your doc. Talk online in a chat room for depression. Talk to someone who will listen and understand. When I was going through this, I wanted to hide it from everyone. I didn’t want anyone to know. That was a bad idea. These days when I am feeling like shit I start talking to people. It helps a huge amount. Other people help. They point out my bad thinking. They put things in a sane perspective. They find the good where I only see the bad. An honest perspective is invaluable.

Of course, please talk to our therapist about this first. While the folks on the Straight Dope are rather smart, listen to your therapist first.

Slee

14

Theoretically graduate students are operating on common ground and obviously each will have their living problems which interfer with their program of studies.

I think it’s important when a person with mental illness self-discloses that he is cognizant of his reasons for discussing it. Any time he is tempted to use it as an excuse (although it may, indeed, be a valid handicap) he is giving it more power in his life than he probably wants it to have.

At the point where a person requires hospitalization then it certainly is a valid time to notify others of why one’s work hasn’t been accomplished. That’s where I’d set the boundary. Wherever yours is is up to you to determine and it’s a good idea to be sure of your motives, I think.

15

Man. It’s so weird that you would post this.

Let me preface this post by saying that I do not think I’m depressed. There was a time when something really bad was wrong with me–though it differed from run-of-the-mill depression substantially–but I think I have recovered. I still go to the therapy and take anti-depressive meds, so maybe I’m not cured. But I’m doing good things with my life that I couldn’t have dreamed of doing a couple of years ago, so I’m using that as proof that I am much better.

However, I’m still dealing with psychiatric problems. They may be neurological or psychosomatic or a combination of both, but they nonetheless affect me internally. I go to work everyday and smile and laugh when appropriate, and most times it’s genuine. But sometimes it’s fake (forced, is more like it) and I’m just trying to get through the interaction as best as I can. I was thinking I was doing a good job of hiding my “true” self until a couple of weeks ago, when someone at work noticed my difficulty walking. Very slow and Parkinson’s-like. Being a normal person, they asked what was wrong and I had to do what I’ve been fearing: I had to explain that I have movement disorder that no one can name or explain and spin it so that it didn’t sound like I had a deadly disease. To make matters worse, my voice was weak and shaky as I explained all of this and it was like this all day. Which made me seem even more pathetic. I basically shut my office door and stayed away from others all day. Wishing so badly that I had been “left” alone.

But then I want to San Franisco and had a grand ole time. When I came back, I felt hopeful about things and let the memory of the “discovery” not bother me anymore. And I thought I had been doing a good job too. I thought I was “normal” again.

But then my boss came into my office on Friday and asked if everything was alright, in a way that suggested that he knew something was going on. Because he caught me off-guard, I blurted out “no” and then non-emotionally spilled all my beans. I’ve got tics, problems walking, limb rigidity, horrible restlessness, and nonsensical repetitive thoughts and they’ve gotten progressively worse over the past 12 or so years. I even told him about my unexplained weight loss. When he asked me about going to doctor, I told him about my journey with various specialists and dead-end paths (I did not tell him about seeing a shrink every week, but I’m betting he can figure that one out on his own now).

But get this: I thought he had sensed my restlessnes in a meeting earlier that day and that was why he was coming to talk to me. No. Rather, it was the “melancholia” he sensed. That kind of blew me away. Melancholia? I’ve been “up” all week. Smiling and laughing as usual. And then it dawned on me. The blunt affect. I might feel like I’m fine inside, but it doesn’t show on the outside. All people see is a face that’s hard as sheet-rock, until I open my mouth. Which explains why, when I showed everyone a picture of me standing next to a giant redwood that I took when I was in CA, they kept asking why I wasn’t smiling even though I clearly remember being very happy when the shot was taken. Dammit. As hard as I try, my slip always seems to be showing.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, your advisor probably senses something’s going on with you and if you go to him, he will probably not be as surprised as you think he is. If he’s being working with students for awhile, he’s accostomed to students having mental illness issues. Believe me. Years ago, my graduate advisor and I were talking about my “next step” career-wise and when I told her I didn’t think I’d make a good post-doc, she gingerly suggested that I needed therapy. Four years later, I realized she was right. If your boss doesn’t handle your disclosure well, then that is really his problem, not yours. There are other people you can go to get career advice from. Are there people on your committee that you trust?

My boss handled my “confession” well. I trust that he will not blab about my problems or treat me any differently than he did before. And despite the slight embarrassment I felt afterwards, I’m kind of glad I told him. If my behavior continues to get more bizarre, I want him to be prepared for it. And if I tell him I need to take a few days off, I can now expect him to not ask too many questions about it. So there is some benefit from being upfront with the person supervising you. But I totally understand your worry about full disclosure.

16

First, thanks to all who have responded. It seems as if I’m always starting one of these threads. I started talking with some people I would call friends about this, but they kept changing the subject. I guess I was bumming them out.

Upon further reflection, I think my main fear is related to what Tethered Kite and Sleestak said. I don’t want to be pegged as a whiny Precious Snowflake who can’t handle a little pressure. I always hear about how stressful doctoral programs are, so I don’t know if feeling like the life has been sucked out of me is what I’m “supposed” to feel.

But, I also realize that depression warps one’s view of the world. What I think my advisor would do is probably not what he’ll do. I just need to trust myself more. Problem is, I don’t know how. I’m afraid that I’m going to get into one of those situations where I just “know” in my gut that [A], but I’m so far out in left field where any reasonable person would think **. There’s probably no cure for that, but talking with some of the most reasonable people on earth (on the Dope) certainly helps.

17

Your academic advisor isn’t your “boss.” His objective isn’t to get work out of you (usually), it’s to see that you 1) produce a quality piece of research for your thesis, and 2) get a good academic job afterward. It looks better for him if his grad students actually graduate and get jobs, so he wants to encourage that. He doesn’t want people to bust out.

Now of course, advisors vary, and some care more about their students than others and take more personal interest in them. Not knowing your advisor, I have no idea how he might respond. However, in my personal experience, most advisors would absolutely want to know if you have some mental issues that might be interfering with objectives 1 and 2, and would be sympathetic.

18

I am really, really torn on this because there certainly still IS a stigma against mental illness. However, I’m not sure that the ‘point of hospitalization’ is the proper boundary here. Considering that possibly if he told his advisor that some of his anxiety might be alleviated and he might be able to avoid going further down the path toward hospitalization.

Unfortunately, those of us with mental issues are Special Snowflakes sometimes but as long as we are trying to actively deal with it and use it as a learning tool and a means to move forward then I think it’s ok. BELIEVE ME, if I had to chose between being a Flake and a ‘normal’, I’d chose normal everyday. But I don’t get that choice and neither does Statsman but we do have the choice to **try to help ourselves **and even though there is risk involved, it appears that telling your advisor might put you on the right path.

19

I had a severe bout of what was likely schizophrenia (I think it was schizophrenia since I had positive, negative & cognitive symptoms) as a teenager, and as a result of that (and bad genetics) I have issues with depression that I will likely have for life. The psychosis is gone and has been for a long time (no major problems with that for 10 years and counting), but the depression comes and goes and probably will for life due to all the stress, isolation and emotional trauma I experienced due to the schizophrenia. I try to keep it under control, but can’t always succeed.

Anyway, my bosses at my job have been really understanding. And letting them know that a lot of my personality quirks are due to my mental illnesses or traumas from them has made my job easier to deal with when I am feeling bad. I used to worry they’d think I was lazy or angry at them, and they let me know that they know it is my illness.

Plus my other coworkers/bosses opened up to me about their bouts of depression. They didn’t judge or condemn me, they told me they have had similar issues.

So at least for me, it worked out. The majority of people who know about it opened up to me about their own issues with mental health problems, either personal or among family/friends.

As a piece of personal advice, reading your posts in this thread Statsman, you seem like someone who expects to be judged, isolated and shunned. That likely is making your depression worse. Being able to accept and show weakness, failure and inadequacy about yourself in a safe, supportive environment can really help you deal with the issues. I know it does for me. But I still get depressed.
My impression is there is starting to be a teired level of stigma for mental illness. Things like depression or anxiety don’t seem to make people as uncomfortable anymore. Issues like psychosis, bipolar and substance abuse though seem to have more stigma.

20

So, how does one go about broaching a subject like this? Unfortunately, unlike Monstro’s boss, I am fairly certain–based on about 3 years worth of interaction with him–that my advisor will not be the one to ask. It’s on me if it will ever happen.

Since reading the responses to this thread, I’ve decided that my sister’s advice was probably good, and that I should say something. So now, I’ve been trying to figure out how to start. Our next weekly meeting is Tuesday, and we usually just talk shop. It usually starts by him asking “So, what’s going on?” I’d like to say something like this, if I can get over my fear and not screw it up:

I literally do not know whether that’s appropriate or not. My default interaction with him is meek obsequiousness. He tells me to jump, and I say “How high?”.

I also still don’t know the answer to the question of what I want him to do, other than “make the pain stop.” Yeah, that sounds melodramatic, but it’s the first thing that pops into my head. I know that I have complete power to stop this; I could go in tomorrow and say “I quit,” and I would be done. I also know that I would kick myself for having come this far–all the courses, passing quals, writing a dissertation proposal–and not finished. I suppose one reasonable response from him would be, “Well, you could always go ABD.” But I know that I would hate myself if I didn’t finish.