In this thread, I asked:
[quote]
I’m the only one who found Edwards speech boring?I can’t say that about Kerry. He did a good job.
Yes, I did expect to hear HOW he’s gonna save the world. If you’re gonna do something, it’s usually a good idea to spell out how you’re gonna do it.
When do we get to hear his plans? Late October? Ever? Does he HAVE any plans? Are they hidden in Al Gore’s lockbox?
And the daughters’ speeches? Doesn’t this guy have ANY friends? Hamster stories aren’t going to win him the swing voters he so desperately needs.
It’s irrelevant to me, given that there’s no way I’m voting for him. But if, God forbid, he DOES win in November, it would have been nice to be able to say “ok, he sucks, but at least he’s got a PLAN, so let’s see if his plan works, who knows, he might surprise us.” Even Nader tells people exactly what he’d do as President. Kerry? No. He said nothing new tonight, nada. Rich people should be taxed more, Bush lied, etc. etc.
I usually find these conventions as dull as dishwater and as predictable as Scooby Doo but this one actually had several memorable speeches and got my blood up a little. I’m more psyched than I have been since maybe '92. Not as confident, maybe but psyched.
Traditionally, the challenger gets a bounce in the polls after the first convention but the moveable middle has been as narrow as I can ever remember it this year. There aren’t any big bounces either way. I think Kerry WILL get a bounce but it won’t be the ususal 10 or 15 points it will be more like 5 or 6, which the Republicans will claim is a “disappointment” which “did not meet expectations.”
The RNC has an uphill climb, though. The party has no charismatic speakers, Bush sucks especially bad, and all they really have for an issue is homo-bashing and WOT fear-mongering.
For the first time I’m starting to tuly feel optimistic. I think Kerry may really be able to win this thing (as long as they don’t fuck it all up with those crap machines in Florida). It won’t be a landslide but I fell like he has the edge. If he wins by one vote, I’ll be happy, though.
Just imagine how sweet it would be to see the expressions on the Bushistas faces on election night if they lose.
This seems a bit disingenuous considering there are numerous links in this thread to the plans. They’re made readily available because it’s impossible to lay out the micro-plan in election speeches. On either side, for any office.
Oh, and Bush has done anything other than bash Kerry? What is Bush’s plan for the next 4 years?
Oh wait, that’s right, Bush has said how he plans to defend marriage from those sinful homosexuals and strip away womens’ reproductive rights. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=NurseCarmen]
In this thread, I asked:
It wasn’t boring, nor was it a bad speech, but unless you are a true believer it was porno, plain and simple. There was nothing there at all of substance, just more blather. Granted, it was GOOD blather, and this was perhaps the best speech I’ve ever heard the man make. Normally he has all the personality of belly button lint.
-XT
Remind me. What’s that brilliant plan that Bush has? I can’t seem to recall it.
That speech had more meat than McDonalds. Jesus jumped-up Christ, man, what more did you want him to say? That was 46 minutes of fire and brimstone.
Not only did he give a good, broad picture of what he would do as president, but he also told us what he * wouldn’t* do. Without a doubt, it was the best political speech I’ve heard in the last 20 years. I look forward with smirking glee to the debates. That will be the best goddam show to ever grace the airwaves.
I was a semi-ABBA before I heard this speech. Tomorrow, I’m calling my local Democratic party headquarters and I’m going to volunteer.
“Doesn’t he have any friends?”
Um,…there was Max Cleland and all his Veteran buddies whom he sevred with up there speaking.
Did you miss it?
What can I say…it didn’t do it for me Lissa. It was 46 minutes of retoric and bullshit. It was well delivered retoric and well crafted bullshit, and it was delivered with plenty of fire and brimstone, as you say…but it was a speech for the converted. If it was targetted at getting folks to really understand Kerry and what he is going to do once he’s president, it fell flat IMO. I’ve been following this convention closely, as I haven’t made up my mind yet. I’m almost certainly not going with Bush, but Kerry still was in the running (though I’m leaning third parties). He did nothing in this speech to convince me that he’s doing more than dancing around the issues in an attempt to take no firm stance…and to portray himself as a moderate/centrist and cater to the middle. I wanted meat and I got McDonalds all right…soya McDonalds psudo burgers. Lots of trimmings, but no beef.
Thats just my impression though Lissa…YRMV.
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My convention speech report card (the ones I saw):
Barack Obama - A+
Jimmy Carter - A
Bill Clinton - A
Teresa H-K - A-
John Kerry - B+
Al Gore - B-
Ted Kennedy - B-
John Edwards - C+
Hillary Clinton - C
Max Cleland - C
Al Sharpton - D
I look at these convention speeches as “This is my Presidential stylin’; how’s it fly?” From that standpoint, he did pretty much all the right things, and I was fairly gobsmacked at the fire with which he delivered his text. After hearing for months about how wooden Kerry supposedly was on the stump, he came across as passionate and almost, dare I say it, folksy. Well, maybe that last one goes a bit overboard. And the text was beautifully written, which I guess is not surprising, since apparently some of the best bits were, uh, homages, let’s say, to earlier speeches by Lincoln and others, including (gulp) GWB. Nevertheless, his little digs at Cheney and Ashcroft came off brilliantly, and the bit (paraphrasing here) where he said that those who trumpet family values could do more to value families was particularly deft.
That said, speeches don’t run the country, so I take good speechifyin’ with a grain of salt. What I did get that was useful to me was: he’s more or less a real person, he doesn’t appear to be a nut, he seems to be able speak plainly (while in true career-pol style, not necessarily speaking plainly at all), he appears, at least for this one night, miles more more eloquent, thoughtful, and worldly than our current CinC, and, lastly, should he unseat Bush, we’d still have two babe daughters around the White House.
Pre-emptive comment: any y’all that wanna try and scare me with the Liberal Bogeyman, go ahead and try. I know what the Liberal Bogeyman looks like, and this guy’s a centrist, by the measure of anyone not to the right of, say, David Duke. You want to attack him for waffling, or maybe for not having any better ideas on Iraq than anyone else, or some other thing, go right ahead, but after this, anyone here who continues to try to color him pink will be met with braying derision from this corner.
Forgot one -
Ron Reagan - A
What speech were you listening (or not listening) to?
[quote=John Kerry]
[ul][li]We will add 40,000 active duty troops – not in Iraq, but to strengthen American forces that are now overstretched, overextended, and under pressure. [/li][li]We will double our special forces to conduct anti-terrorist operations. [/li][li]We will provide our troops with the newest weapons and technology to save their lives – and win the battle. [/li][li]And we will end the backdoor draft of National Guard and reservists.[/ul][/li][/quote]
[quote=John Kerry]
The 9-11 Commission has given us a path to follow, endorsed by Democrats, Republicans, and the 9-11 families. As President, I will not evade or equivocate; I will immediately implement the recommendations of that commission. [ul][li] We shouldn’t be letting ninety-five percent of container ships come into our ports without ever being physically inspected. [/li][li]We shouldn’t be leaving our nuclear and chemical plants without enough protection. [/li][li]And we shouldn’t be opening firehouses in Baghdad and closing them down in the United States of America. [/ul][/li][/quote]
[quote=John Kerry]
So here is our economic plan to build a stronger America: [ul][li]First, new incentives to revitalize manufacturing. [/li]
[li]Second, investment in technology and innovation that will create the good-paying jobs of the future. [/li]
[li]Third, close the tax loopholes that reward companies for shipping our jobs overseas. Instead, we will reward companies that create and keep good paying jobs where they belong – in the good old U.S.A. [/ul][/li][/quote]
[quote=John Kerry]
[ul][li]we won’t raise taxes on the middle class. [/li][li]I will cut middle class taxes. [/li][li]I will reduce the tax burden on small business. [/li][li]And I will roll back the tax cuts for the wealthiest individuals who make over $200,000 a year, so we can invest in job creation, health care and education. [/ul][/li][/quote]
John Kerry For President!
Oh, for Pete’s sake! The girls were there to put a human face on a man who is so in control of himself that he might seem wooden and dull to people who think their President ought to be as bubbly and charming a guest on the Oprah Show. Some pundit referred to the “Oprahfication of American politics earlier in the week. I like the sound of that analysis.
Didn’t you catch the parallel between fishing the hamster out of the drink and fishing the Green Barrette lieutenant out of the Mekong? It is a continuum of action – risk to himself to do the generous and caring thing.
Friends? Did you see that line up of old salts on the stage. They had their own little unit reunion right there. Do you suppose George will troop out the flight line guys from the Texas Air Guard (assuming they can find the roster)?
Fucking right.
He’s not a Clinton or an Obama for oratory expertise (that damn swaying in place, foot shifting, when he was getting a little revved, started to get me seasick!) and I am not thrilled with the obvious positioning as being very willing to use military force. But overall he did fine.
I like a military man in times of war because he knows what is like to be there, to be at risk of death, to kill, and to watch your buddies die. I think that they respect the seriousness of the choice to go to war more than someone who has never seen battle. I do not think that he made that point strongly enough. OTOH he gave people a sense of his personality. People now can get as feeling not only for what they want to vote against, but a sense of someone to vote for. The overall positive tone, the explicit portrayal of the Pubbies as “dividers not unifiers”, will resonate well with the public during the next several weeks that will likely see very negative ads out of the Bush camp, using up money before the convention gets their time clock fixed.
He has made his choice of how to play it. He is going after the middle hard and after disillusioned Pubbies. He is willing to blow off some of the Left to Nader in order to do it. I think that such at least is true to his own centrist beliefs.
The content was great.
The presentation sucked.
Kerry needs to join Toastmaster right quick because a bad presentation overshadows the content more often than not.
As a veteran myself, I have nothing but contempt for this viewpoint. I have made that point many times on this board.
First of all DSeid, some of our greatest war presidents weren’t soldiers at all, or if they were, weren’t distinguished ones. Lincoln and FDR instantly spring to mind as examples here. Conversely, I can pick some war hero presidents who were disasters as leaders. Zachary Taylor wasn’t a great president. Neither was Grant.
Secondly, I like to query people who say we should vote for Kerry because of his war record. Because many of these same people voted for Clinton in 1996 instead of a partially paralyzed WWII veteran and holder of the Bronze Star. Many of them, too, voted for Clinton over the youngest Navy pilot of WWII and a winner of the Distinguished Flying Cross. Clinton, as we all know, avoided the draft in Vietnam.
Who did you vote for in 1992 and 1996, DSeid? If it was Clinton, and this issue is so inportant to you now, you’re a hypocrite.
However, had you been voting for legitimate issues all along, instead of a phony veteran’s status litmus test, you’d have a clear conscience.
This is different. Bush has shown a callous disregard for the lives of soldiers under his command. Kerry knows what it’s like to be sent to a bullshit war for no reason. It’s a very specific life experience which Bush is incapable of comprehending.
Sure there have been great civilian CIC’s. Bush is not one of them.
And I sense a little partsan sour grapes in your post. Did you express “contempt” for the view that Bob Dole’s service was meaningful or did you only now come to that philosophy now that you are faced with a war hero running as a Dem?