Kids and firearm safety, your thoughts?

[RTFirefly]

@missred

1. Guns are pervasive in the media, on TV, in the movies and in video games.

True, but with the exception of video games which weren’t around then, the same was true when I grew up back in the 1960s. That didn’t seem to create much interest in or curiosity about the workings of guns amongst my friends.

2. Even if you aren’t a gun owner, many of us live in areas with a gun culture.

Sorry about that.

I mean that. Aside from that vanishingly small fraction of the population that kills and eats enough game that the money saved on food is substantially larger than the costs involved in gun ownership and hunting, I fail to see any advantages accruing to living in an area with a gun culture. It makes about as much sense to me as living in an area with a snake-handling culture. Sure, you can learn to handle the snakes safely and properly, but they’re still snakes.

[gallan]

@RTFirefly

if one kid goes home to his parents and mentions the gun in Johnny’s house. Johnny’s suddenly going to have a hard time getting play dates.

I think you missed the point. Your kid knows that you don’t like guns and don’t want him learning about them, so it’s likely that he’s going to actively hide the fact that his new friend Johnny has access to guns (especially if he’s already lost one friend that way). So instead of learning about guns from a responsible adult, he’ll learn about guns in secret, from Johnny.

@RTFirefly

@missred

1. Guns are pervasive in the media, on TV, in the movies and in video games.

True, but with the exception of video games which weren’t around then, the same was true when I grew up back in the 1960s. That didn’t seem to create much interest in or curiosity about the workings of guns amongst my friends.

Just because you and your friends weren’t interested in guns doesn’t mean that all children lack an interest in guns. It’s quite possible that you and your friends weren’t the norm. I grew up in a suburban area and my friends and I were intensely interested in guns. We even found one once and carried it around all day because we didn’t know any better.

[Zeriel]

@RTFirefly

I mean that. Aside from that vanishingly small fraction of the population that kills and eats enough game that the money saved on food is substantially larger than the costs involved in gun ownership and hunting, I fail to see any advantages accruing to living in an area with a gun culture.

I grew up in an area which was sufficiently rural (by which I mean, less than an hour from a major city, mind you) that it was not uncommon to hear a noise downstairs and find that a 350lb black bear had torn open your porch door and was rummaging through your pantry. While this fortunately never happened to my (unarmed) parents, judging from the experiences of our neighbors that’s got more to do with the fact our porch was on a second-story deck that was vaguely inconvenient for bears than anything else. We’d occasionally (once every two years or so) have to run inside because a particularly fearless bear was on the other side of the house ignoring our noise and utterly annihilating my mom’s bird feeders.

Many of my aunts lived in the southwest and regularly had to evict western diamondbacks, which are the second-most deadly snake in the US. Even the most liberal Californians of them eventually all invested in a reliable revolver for that purpose.

In large swaths of this country, the use of a gun as a tool to keep deadly aspects of nature at bay is not theoretical.

[Zeriel]

I guess my problem with the RTFireflyapproach is this: Even though I live in a liberal suburb of a liberal town, I don’t really get a choice whether to bring my kids up in a “gun culture” or not, unless I don’t want them to see any of my relatives except my mom and dad-in-law. Literally every other relative owns a firearm, most of them of at least partial necessity. Even if I was utterly uninterested in gun use and ownership, it would make a large amount of sense for me to make my uncle (the gun-owningest of the bunch) my go-to guy for demystifying firearms so that if one of my relatives were to be careless with their guns in a way I didn’t find out about, my kid would still be able to be safe.

Especially since in the culture of my town, gun owners are not going to be open about it because it will make them a pariah among a subset of parents–meaning that I’m never going to be sure that Mini-Z will not run into a gun at someone’s home and simply not tell me about it.

Serious question–would you let your kid have a play date with mine at my house, knowing that my guns are secured with two key locks and locked inside an opaque combination-lock free-standing safe?

[Captain_Midnight]

I do not like guns. We had a .22 rifle in the house and now my elderly father has a concealed carry permit. I am just not interested in them, find them extremely dangerous, and feel that American society is much more dangerous because of the ease of gun ownership, legal or otherwise.

If I had a child (around 10), I would teach them to never play with someone’s gun. You could possibly **KILL YOURSELF **or a playmate. Guns are not for fucking with. Leave them alone. If your friend is playing with it, please leave and come home. Your life is the most precious to me and it would kill your mother and I if something happened.

There is no such thing as an unloaded gun.

I would show my kid gory, bloody pictures of people shot on the internet. Like this one below. (Not work safe)

http://poetry.rotten.com/shot-au/0003/

I would also show my kid Budd Dwyer’s suicide with a 357 Magnum. Blast. “This is what a gun can do to your head.”

His grandfather (my father) could tell my child about one of his best friends who shot one of his testicles off hunting. (and no, I have no clue how in the hell he did that.) I would actually dissuade hunting, but I understand why people hunt, mostly to keep the populations of certain animals in check. But there are a lot of accidents hunting and there needs to be precautions. Take a gun safety course, and don’t drink alcohol with your weapon. Don’t lay it on the ground or in the bed of your truck for your dog to step on it by accident and creates another anal cavity on your body.

This would be my mantra until my kid turns 18. Don’t play with guns. Period. If you want to have a gun, take a firearms safety course. Keep it in your car. Don’t take it in my house. Lock it tight in your house. (Hmmmmm! After all those gory shooting videos and Budd Dwyer, my fictional kid turns into a murderer of cute fuzzy animals an NRA member! Shame.)

If my child (especially a son) wanted to be a police officer or a member of the armed services, that would be fine by me. They would teach my child about how to use weapons. I am not a hunter, and would not expect my child to be one either, but if my kid enjoyed hunting for meat, then they should take a firearms course.

If I had children, I would teach them self defence, and teach them that in a situation where someone is robbing you with a gun, to give that person what they want so that they will leave. I would say over 99% oif the time, an armed mugger does not kill anyone. I would teach them not to be out on the streets looking for trouble and avoid certain places and obey the police.

[Maggie_the_Ocelot]

@Tethered_Kite

@Maggie_the_Ocelot

My child(ren) will be taught that guns are basically bad things, and that only bad guys and cops have them. I live in the city, and so this will be pretty much true. They won’t get any toy guns or toy soldiers, regardless of their gender.

If I become aware that my child’s playmate’s parents keep a gun, they will not be allowed over at that playmate’s house. The playmate may come to our place any time they want, I won’t stop them being friends, but all play will be at our house or a park or some such.

Oh this made me nostalgic for the days when I knew exactly how to raise children.

shrug It’s how I was raised, and how my brother was raised. Didn’t cause us any problems, neither of us ever became “fascinated” with guns. My brother had a whole passel of toy swords, and he and his friends would have swordfights all the time with them - playing knights instead of soldiers.

[Zeriel]

@Maggie_the_Ocelot

shrug It’s how I was raised, and how my brother was raised. Didn’t cause us any problems, neither of us ever became “fascinated” with guns. My brother had a whole passel of toy swords, and he and his friends would have swordfights all the time with them - playing knights instead of soldiers.

I wonder if it’s ironic or not that as a soon-to-be-parent, I’m far more concerned about the potential of injury from that than I am from guns? I know I had some pretty impressive bruises and cuts from toy swords (both padded toy and improvised) in my day.

[DragonAsh]

Right, 'cause bruises and cuts are so much worse than, you know, bullet holes and all.

[Zeriel]

@DragonAsh

Right, 'cause bruises and cuts are so much worse than, you know, bullet holes and all.

Spoken like someone with no grasp of probability–I know from experience that playing with swords is a near-100% chance of getting bruised/cut. Meanwhile, I am willing to bet that you (presumably an adult and at least partially educated) could not access my guns without my authorization (or a serious safe-cracking kit and a few hours).

I’m also more worried about my kids skinning their knees after falling off a bike than I am worried about them stealing and crashing an airliner, despite the fact that hundreds of deaths in a massive fireball are worse than something you spray bactine on.

[Zeriel]

Missed the edit window:

Incidentally, I’ve never known a gunshot victim, accidental or otherwise, but I have known two people who needed stitches (in one case, below their eye and 1/4" from putting out his eye) from fighting with play padded/foam swords.

[kopek]

@DragonAsh

1. If the kid isn’t old enough to drive or smoke, they shouldn’t be playing around with guns.

2. Lots of parents focusing on gun handling skills. I’ve never heard a parent advocate talking with their kids about why they have a gun.

I grew up in a very rural area and started driving and chewing tobacco around age 6 or so. I had already been shooting for a few years but I suppose I can slide by on that one. As for “why”, that was usually pretty obvious around dinner time.

Minus the tobacco I’ve treated my nieces and nephews, and now grand-nieces and nephews, about the same as I was treated. So far so good.

@RTFirefly

@GusNSpot

IMO, anyone can teach their children about anything at any age they chose.

Those weren’t the OP’s kids. Which is why I fail to see the need for him to be there as a resource.

Not part of a family huh? Well, for some of us with families, the entire extended clan is a resource in more ways than just this. We’re where vacations take place, provide care after school, become a source of housing and support during medical emergencies. If you are going to be under my roof in times of great stress or great joy, you will need some basic idea what the environment involves.

@RTFirefly

Actually, it’s a settled point that kids aren’t just property, and no, you can’t raise them any way you want. Parents are accorded a great deal of latitude in raising their children, but they don’t have a right to unduly risk their lives or health, nor do they have a right to deny them a basic education.

Never watched an episode of Dirty Jobs either, huh?

@RTFirefly

Well yeah, we don’t allow kids to drive cars until they’re 16. My way, as is the way of the entire U.S. of A., is to not allow it. Yes indeed. I’m glad there’s no confusion about that.

Confusion we clearly have. In the entire US of A kids can drive cars and lots of other things as early as their parents or guardians wish to allow it. There are restrictions on where and some slight limitations on how but that’s just the way it is. I’ll tell you what, I’ll set up a specific time and place to let an 8 year old drive my old F-V race car and you legally stop me. It will be an interesting experiment for me and, I believe, a sudden reality check for you.

[DragonAsh]

@kopek

I grew up in a very rural area and started driving and chewing tobacco around age 6 or so.

I’m sorry you had stupid parents.

[kopek]

@DragonAsh

@kopek

I grew up in a very rural area and started driving and chewing tobacco around age 6 or so.

I’m sorry you had stupid parents.

They were married so I guess that’s one thing in my favor.

[Susanann]

@kopek

In the entire US of A kids can drive cars and lots of other things as early as their parents or guardians wish to allow it.

In America kids can drive cars and shoot guns on their own property at any age. I did both Loooooooooooooooong before I was 15.

The only requirements are being strong enough to hold up a heavy gun(it “seems” heavy if you are only 5 years old), and being able to reach the pedals if you are going to drive.

In most states you can also get a drivers license to drive farm vehicles on public roads and you can gun hunt on public lands long before you are 15.

Buffalo Bill left home, got a job, and carried a gun, starting when he was 11.

Annie Oakley hunted with a gun starting when she was 6 years old to help support her mother.

Today’s “kids”, young people, are “children”, are irresponsible, careless, reckless, dangerous, stupid, ignorant, only because parents raised them to be that way.

On the other hand, some, lots, of people** never!!!** grow up, never become responsible, and those people should never have guns, cars, knives, baseball bats, or any dangerous weapon.

Annie Oakley

[gurujulp]

@RTFirefly

Those weren’t the OP’s kids. Which is why I fail to see the need for him to be there as a resource.

Actually, it’s a settled point that kids aren’t just property, and no, you can’t raise them any way you want. Parents are accorded a great deal of latitude in raising their children, but they don’t have a right to unduly risk their lives or health, nor do they have a right to deny them a basic education.

Well yeah, we don’t allow kids to drive cars until they’re 16. My way, as is the way of the entire U.S. of A., is to not allow it. Yes indeed. I’m glad there’s no confusion about that.

@RTFirefly

There’s a difference between what is considered normal, and what makes sense, given our standards for similarly risky activities.

But quite frankly, it’s a longshot.

What?

My parents taught me how to shoot a .22 rifle as a small child. As a thirteen-year-old, I was hanging out with people who had handguns, assault rifles, and shotguns sitting around, and we would often drive out to fields in the country to use them. I was glad to have known what little I did. I was by far the most responsible person in the group, EVERY time.

And yeah, on your property, your child can drive whenever you want to let them. No matter what age.

[Foggy]

I think they are simply too dangerous and risky and refuse to have them in my home and prefer to not to be around them.

Of course I’m talking about the kids, but now that I think about it, this apply to guns also.

[ExTank]

***Guns are simply a tool, and must be respected, teach the kids to respect guns and not fear them ***

That doesn’t mean that a gun owner should just leave loaded firearms lying about the place; they should be secured (stout cabinet or gun safe) or under the control* of a responsible adult while in the home where children are present.

*“Under the control” is a term used to mean “secured on the person,” not “left in the back of the sock drawer” or “left in the nightstand.” Although I personally see little if any reason someone needs to be armed 24/7/356 while in their home, I also admit I haven’t seen it all yet, so there may very well be legitimate reasons for doing so (beyond “it’s my right”).

Personally, if I lived anywhere so bad I felt the need to be armed 24/7 like that in my home, it’s not someplace I would be staying very long.