I think it’s best to encourage kids, but also to instill good habits in them.
It also helps to learn about what you need to achieve your dream.
Becoming a Hollywood actress involves entering one of the most crowded career fields on Earth - where 90% of hopefuls are out of work and waiting tables until ‘something’ comes along.
Now if your sister takes acting classes and also learns about writing, directing and film production, she will at least be able to recognise good scripts, make useful contacts and cope with the pain of rejection.
This may be unwise to mention, but somebody had to be the first ever full-time UK School chess teacher. And I loved it! (But I was lucky to get it and had a profitable alternative career in place…)
I think the key for unrealistic dreams is to encourage the dreamer to find out how good they are, as soon as possible, so they’ll know how hard they have to work to be number one. A four-foot-tall kid who wants to be in the NBA? Tell him to get off his local blacktop games, join a team, and try to compete at the regional level. A superstar actress? Tell her to start auditioning for roles.
A personal anecdote: I was going to be a famous poet until partway through my senior year in high school. My parents and teachers took the approach above and encouraged me to find out whether I had what it took to make it. I had been published by several poetry journals all over the country of various quality, and avidly read the other poems in the journals. They were very good writers… and I was lucky to be printed on the same pages with them, because even these struggling amateurs were two or three notches better than I was. About the same time, I realized how much work it takes to craft a poem out of the glurge that sprays from even an incredibly creative person’s brain – I wouldn’t ever be able to just attach a hose to my head, direct the juices onto a blank page, and cash the paper like it was money*. Comparing that effort to the number of poets (and the number of successful poets) convinced me that being an engineer with plenty of writing talent would be more fruitful than struggling uphill for a one-in-ten-thousand chance of becoming (e.g.) the Poet Laureate of North Dakota for two years.
it turns out that, with the exception of a few of the academic social sciences, there are basically zero careers that will let you do this.
This is pretty much the way I look at it. My sister isn’t the first in the family to dream of fame, and if she made it, she wouldn’t be the first person in the family to gain fame (although not on the level that she plans* to acheive). As I said in the OP, somebody has to make it. I like the idea of telling her to look at diversifying. We do point out this or that actor/muscian who has a degree.
*And this is my main concern. The planning. As **Siege ** said, you can’t bank on something like this. Just assuming you don’t need to take your lessons and schooling seriously, and that you can just coast into your dream career. Thinking it would be fun or cool is a lot different than assuming this is something you can just go out and get.
Chrismoody, I see where you’re coming from, but don’t think you can blame your apathy solely on your father. Just because you might not be the best doesn’t mean you should give up entirely. Although I assume you’ve figured that out by now. I guess it depends on how old you were when you fell into that rut.
So how old is your sister?
As for the kids who don’t want to study math because they are in the NBA, tell them an agent takes 10%, then ask them what 10% of 13.2 million dollar contract is.
I got the same exact quote from my mother, although it was in reference to me having got a big head at some point during either elementary school or middle school when, as far as I could tell, I WAS the best at what I was doing (academic competition & football).
I actually found the advice useful- it came back a few years later, when I wasn’t the best at anything, and I realized what my mom was getting at. It wasn’t so much that I wasn’t good at it, or couldn’t be successful, but that I shouldn’t put all my self-esteem in that basket; but rather concentrate on feeling good about things I could control- like how I treat others.
As for the OP, I think that maybe ruthlessly telling a girl that wants to be a hollywood starlet that at best she’ll end up working in a local car dealership commercial or two, and at worst, she’ll end up in pornos is probably not useful.
On the other hand, I think it’s not a bad tactic to sit kids down and have a “planning session” where you lay out the steps necessary for success, and start formulating a plan to achieve them. In my experience, that tends to pound home either the extreme amount of effort involved, and/or the extreme amount of luck involved better than just saying “You’ll never do it.”.
My older son dreamed of being an astronaut, and the first person on Mars. We didn’t discourage his dream at all–he had it planned out. He was going to get into the Air Force Academy, and then NASA.
When he was 12 years old, he developed Type 1 diabetes. I have only seen my son cry one time about his disease, and that’s when he realized he could not get into the Air Force Academy. Maybe we should have discouraged his dream, I don’t know. I do know that real life knocked a great big hole in his sails, and it took him a while to find a different direction.
I wouldn’t discourage your sister myself. I don’t know that I’d even talk about the slim odds of her success. I think maybe (again just maybe) I’d suggest related fields to study as she also studies everything related to her chosen profession.
Ergh. So she’s one of the millions of teens who no longer wants to ‘be’ anything except for famous (and can you blame them?). Not a teacher, not a lawyer, not president. Just famous. Just like, let’s see, Hilary Duff, Lindsay Lohan, that Hannah Montana girl, Brintey Spears (she tried acting, remember?) etc. etc.
Because it’s such a common dream (and I mean that in every sense of the word), encourage her acting and singing talents, things that actually take practice and skill, but feel absolutely free to tell her how crappy the industry can be and how much competition she’s facing. If she really wants to act and sing, she’ll want to do more than just diet, learn how to walk in heels and practice her answers for Jay Leno.
Are your parents loaded? Then send her to one of the famous acting camps in the Catskills. Encourage her to continue in local productions, and let her know that’s how many famous actors got their starts (just don’t tell her about their rich and famous parents or godparents).
Yeah, I guess I’d encourage her to get as much acting experience as possible (point out that even in Hollywood, theater is where the prestige is and where the mostly start), take lots of classes and whatnot, since she needs to understand stuff from plot structure to dance. She might like to develop specific physical skills–I remember in college, an actor buddy of mine had all sorts of things on his CV–fencing, juggling, and so on.
A really good actress has to use her mind, body, and voice as tools of expression. There’s a ton of work that goes into that. And while she’s turning herself into a really good actress, she’ll get lots of good transferable skills.
IMO, part of the parents’ job is to help their kid prepare to be successful and happy as adults. If the kid won’t be happy doing anything other than trying to be an actress, then the parent should assist them in pursuing that dream. That assistance should include setting out goals and plans, pointing out opportunities they may be passing up, researching earning potential, assessing the likely standard of living the kid will encounter, and possibly helping identify “fallback” related careers.
My middle kid went through a phase where he professed a desire to be a fiction writer. He spent hours upon hours in the basement on the computer writing stories, plays, screenplays, and even a novella. We had several talks with him.
-Basically told him that if he wanted to be a writer, he needed to study writing - take workshops, write for the school paper, and the like, rather than simply writing by himself. To the extent he was unwilling to pursue such things over time, it helped him realize that writing was not a passion he had to pursue.
-He also had to consider the type of lifestyle he might lead if he failed to write the bestseller he expected. He gets really good grades, and could graduate from college with any number of career opportunities which would provide him a comfortable existence - if that was important to him. If he wanted to be a writer, he had to have his eyes open to what kind of lifestyle that might involve.
-We also suggested that at his age he might want to get out there and experience life to have more to write about.
-We suggested that he consider other writing jobs, such as tech writing, which might earn him a more regular salary than fiction writing, and consider studying things like perhaps business or science, where his communications skills might give him an advantage.
-We also observed that while he could always come back to writing, or do it as a hobby or part-time, he would be less able to pick up science/engineering - his other interests - at a later date if he did not study them in college.
He’s going to study aeronautical engineering at either Purdue or U of I next year. I would be surprised if he does not continue writing scientifically accurate SF.
It is really hard to not just blindly support your kid in all of their interests.
Hmm. It’s actually a big joke for everybody because, really, it’s the story you NEVER hear. The chances of her son actually becoming a rock star were so miniscule that she and her friends think it’s hysterical that he actually did. I think if someone is so disconnected from reality that the can’t see the irony in this story then no amount of sense-talking is going to have any effect. If someone is so deluded that they think they are going to go to Hollywood and be a star with no effort, training or back-up plan, what makes you think their tiny brain can be reasoned with?
My sister-in-law makes a good living as an actress/model. You’ve probably never heard of her, but you may have seen her, and that’s the way she likes it. She just positioned herself to take advantage of opportunities that the wanna-be “stars” won’t touch like commercials and corporate gigs. She’s also consistently employed as an actress/model and most of her classmates aren’t. (She was a theater major in college.)
The problem is that a lot of people with dreams of stardom actually just want the lifestyle - wealth, fame, parties and recognition without a lot of the actual work involved. They would probably be better off trying to befriend someone who actually has a chance of making it big and then sponging off them Entourage style.
I mean how serious is this girl? Does she enrole in school plays? Does she take acting classes? Does she go on auditions? Is she talking to agents? If she isn’t actually working towards her “goal” then it’s just an idle fantasy that’s giving her an excuse to not really work at anything.
That’s fine. The world needs waitresses and bartenders too.
Actually you do hear that story often, with the same line you added at the end of your thread. It is rare to hear it from someone who actually knows the person though.
I’m not in the habit of writing off kids or young teens as being too stupid to be helped.
Well, sure, but encouraging someone and helping them figure out exactly what is needed to achieve something resembling their dream is, I think, more helpful than just saying “Well, that won’t work. Better do something else.” With the former, the kid is the one who figures out that she doesn’t want to do the work involved. With the latter, you step right into the role of the soulless and oppressive Man who just wants everyone to live in a box, and who must be fought.
I had a discussion with a young neighbor of mine (probably about 14 at the time), where she told me she was going to be an artist one day. I told her that was great! The world needs artists. Art is important! But that she needed to have a way to earn a living while she was working on getting her art recognized to the point where she could make a living at that. At 14, they don’t usually have too much of a plan on how to get from Point A (I want to be a _______) to Point B (I’m making a living as a _________). This kid actually listened very seriously to what I had to say–up until then, she thought it was a simple as “I paint a picture and sell it for a bunch of money.” YMMV.
Another twist is to encourage the kid to pursue complementary skills. Like my oldest, who is studying music education.
My youngest has at times suggested the possibility of majoring in music performance. I’ve suggested that if she wishes to pursue that route, that she consider other possible careers within the music business, should the job market for professional bassoonists turn out to be less than hot. There are plenty of jobs in the arts other than performers.
Another alternative is to encourage the kid to pursue their dreams as an aggressive hobby - and work with them in identifying careers that will provide the income, benefits, and schedule that will permit them to do so. It might be worth working at a soul-numbing job for 8 hours a day if it pays well and has no stress or overtime, freeing you to spend all of your freetime pursuing your art.
This is a good point. There’s nothing wrong about dreaming about being a great actress if you really love ACTING itself, passionately and deeply. If the OP’s sister loves theater and knows that it’s going to be a big part of her life no matter what happens … well then, go for it. If you really, really love acting then its better to spend your life as a bit player doing what you love than as a CPA who sees every day at the office as nothing but drudgery.
When I was a little kid I loved board games. My idea of a good time was to spend an afternoon reading rule books. Not even playing the game, mind you … just reading the rules and working through possible strategies in my head. Now I design games for a living. There’s a coolness factor, sure. But I still get off on the abstract interactions of different rule sets. Most of the people I know who do this sort of thing professionally are the same way – they’re in love with the mechanics of actually doing the job, not with the cachet that comes with it.
Most actresses and musicians who make it have tunnel vision and refuse to consider anything else. So if that’s what she’s determined to do, you can either support her or not, but it won’t change her mind.
If you ask my son what he’s going to do when he grows up he will tell you in all seriousness that at age 21 he’s going to go to Las Vegas and win the world series of poker. I’ve pointed out that he might not be the only 16-year-old with those ambitions. “Yes, but I’m really going to do it,” he says. My job at this juncture is to smile indulgently and suggest that he might want to develop a back-up plan.